Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do we now know that...? | John 16:30 | Ray | 86185 | ||
We have already discussed John 9:24 on the forum, but I was comparing that verse with John 16:30 today in my reading. "We know that" is important to this book and his other letters. 1 John 3:5, "And you KNOW THAT He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin." I believe that the Greek includes one more pronoun; in order "that our sins He might take away". Can there be any doubt that this Man was not a sinner? Why does the Amplified feel it necessary to say that "Because of this we believe that you [sic] [really] came from God."? If He really came from God lets say with John 16:30, NASB, "by this we believe that You came from God." John 16:27, "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God." From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Do we now know that...? | John 16:30 | Morant61 | 86191 | ||
Greetings Ray! May I throw a wrench in the works? :-) 1 John 3:5 actually contains several more pronouns (either implied or explict): "And you know that this one He has been made known, that the sins He might take away, and sin in Him not it is." So, there are a total of 6 pronouns in these verse ('this one' being one word in Greek). I didn't quite follow what part of which verse you were questioning the translation of? Could you be a little more specific? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Do we now know that...? | John 16:30 | Ray | 86211 | ||
Hi Tim, Thanks for responding. I look forward to getting your help on this. You know of course that I count pronouns of Deity. So I am interested in the pronoun that says "that the sins of us He might take away". 1) In your translation you have "this one". In the copies that I have available to me, it is translated "that one". In other words your "this one He" could be translated "that One". 2) I believe that "that One" refers to 1 John 3:3 where it speaks of "that One" being pure. We KNOW THAT we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. Jesus is the righteous Man just as verse seven says. Can we "wrench" out any agreement on these verses? I am sure that we can. From the heart, Ray |
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4 | Do we now know that...? | John 16:30 | Morant61 | 86305 | ||
Greetings Ray! Sorry, it took awhile to get back to you my friend! I've was out of town for a day or so. 1) "that the sins of us He might take away": In this phrase, there isn't actually a pronoun in the text 'for us'. The verb 'take away' is an Aorist, Active, Subjunctive, 3rd Person, Singular verb, so that is where the 'He' comes from. The phrase 'this one' is from 'ekeinos' in the previous clause. But, I did make a mistake in my translation. 'That' is the correct choice, not 'this'. 'Ekeinos' is the remote demonstrative. In a strickly literal translation, I would not combine the 'He' with the 'that one' though. They are in different clauses and the pronoun 'he' is included in the form of the verb. 2) That one: You do raise an interesting observation about 'that One' in 1 John. I did some checking. That particular pronoun is used 7 times in 1 John - interchangebly for Christ and for God. They are: 1 John 2:6, 3:3, 3:5, 3:7, 3:16, 4:17, and 5:16. With the exception of 1 John 5:16, all of the other references refer to either Christ or to God the Father. Very interesting observations my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Do we now know that...? | John 16:30 | Ray | 86658 | ||
Hi Morant61, I was confident that we would agree on that one (passage, translation).:) What a great God is that One. Even the one true God of 1 John 5:20. 1) Thank you for the information of the number of times "ekeinos" occurs in the Greek. What is the best method of finding information like that in this computer age? 2) Another word that I have tried to get people interested in is "this one". I have studied "this" and "this one" in the last few days. 1 John has Strong's numbers 846,3778, 5124, 5127, and 5129. In the past I have tried to drum up interest in being consistent in translating #3778, "houtos", this (one), (One). This man or this Man. So my second question for you tonight would be about 1 John 5:6 and 20. Can we have a similar translation of these words? What method can we use to consistently determine whether it should be interpreted/translated "this One" or "this one"? 3) Which interpretation do you go with for 1 John 5:6? NASB, "This is the one who came be water and blood, Jesus Christ;..." NKJ, "This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ;..." Thank you Tim for your interest in the Greek. Do be careful in your involvement in counting of pronouns. It can become an obsession, even more than being at the computer all the time. :) Best wishes. From the heart, Ray |
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6 | Do we now know that...? | John 16:30 | Morant61 | 86688 | ||
Greetings Ray! Allow me to touch upon your questions! 1) The best way is a good software. I use Logos and I am able to determine frequency of use quite easily. If one does not have a good program, there is an excellent two book set that I use called, "The Word Study Concordance". The first volume is the KJV (NT Only) text keyed to Strongs. The second volume is a concordance keyed to Strongs which lists every single occurance of each Greek word. 2) It is hard to pigeon hole 'houtos'. How I translate it usually depends upon which makes the most sense in English. To always translate it as 'this One' or 'this one' could result in some pronoun packed sentences! :-) But, in answer to your question, both 1 John 5:6 and 5:20 could be translated 'this One'. 1 John 5:20 is a remarkable verse. For all those who doubt the Deity of Christ, check out this verse, which clearly states that Jesus is the True God! 3) For the average reader, I would probably go with the NKJ simply because it is more readable. But, both are acceptable translations. I'll beware of those pronouns my friend! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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