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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does Jn 15:16 "choosing" apply to us? | John 15:16 | Huron | 166555 | ||
Is Jesus just talking to the disciples here, or is he speaking to everyone who believes? Thanks! Huron |
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2 | Does Jn 15:16 "choosing" apply to us? | John 15:16 | DocTrinsograce | 166560 | ||
Dear Huron, The narrative you cite involves the teaching of Christ as he departed the temple and went to the garden Gethsemane. Therefore, from a historical standpoint Jesus was speaking to His disciples. However, in a broader sense, Jesus is speaking to all of His disciples. See how in this passage He gives guidelines for the characteristics of Christ's disciples. Remember, from the Great Commission we know that the job of the Church is to make disciples. Another time I posted some of these characteristics from this passage: v8 Disciples bear much fruit (John 15:16; Col 1:10) v9 Disciples abide in the Father and Son's love (John 14:21; Jude 21) v10 Disciples keep Christ's commandments (John 15:14, 20; 1 John 5:3) v11 Disciples can rejoice in adversity (James 1:2; 1 Peter 4:13) v12 Disciples love one another (John 15:17) v13 Disciples show self-abnegating love (John 13:35; Rom 12:10; Heb 10:24) v14 Disciples know/love Word (John 10:27, 14:21; 2 Tim 3:15; 2 Pet 3:16) v16 Disciples petition the Father thru Christ (1 Cor 1:2; Eph 5:20) v15 Disciples are taught by God (Psa 71:17; John 14:26; Eph 1:17) v18 Disciples are hated by the world (John 17:14; 1 John 3:13) v19 Disciples are not of the world (1 Cor 1:21; Gal 4:3-5; Eph 2:2) v20 Disciples are persecuted (2 Tim 3:12) v26 Disciples have the Spirit (John 14:26; 1 Cor 6:19; Jud 20) v27 Disciples self propagate (Mat 28:18-20; Acts 6:7) More directly to your question, the word "choose" that Christ uses is the word from which we get the English "elect." Other passages of Scripture clearly teach the notion of the election of the saints; i.e., that all believers are chosen first of God long before they choose Him. I think you are quite safe in seeing these instructions as being personally applicable to you, if you are one of the redeemed. In Him, Doc |
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3 | Does Jn 15:16 "choosing" apply to us? | John 15:16 | Ocelot | 166563 | ||
I agree with Doc. I would also add that Christ’s choosing is not limited to those who are saved. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” And again 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance.” Christ chooses all, but not all choose Christ. Ocelot |
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4 | Does Jn 15:16 "choosing" apply to us? | John 15:16 | DocTrinsograce | 166568 | ||
Dear Ocelot, You wrote, "Christ’s choosing is not limited to those who are saved." This initial statement leads me to think that you are referring to the reprobate. If so, I'd agree, although I wouldn't use John 3:16 to make the point. (That passage is descriptive in nature, not prescriptive.) The eternal destiny of the elect is fundamentally insured through the decretive will of God (Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:3-6). The eternal destiny of all others is insured through the permissive will of God. In other words, the former is an act of commission while the latter is an act of ommission. Your inclusion of 2 Peter 3:9, on the other hand, implies that you are attempting to assert something about election. Inferring only from the emphasis you have added to these verses -- since your statements are unclear -- it appears that you are making some kind of assertion involving the doctrine of libertarian free will. I have stated the orthodox position on 2 Peter 3:9 pretty clearly on the forum in the past. I've nothing to add. Your final statement is contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture. I'd commend you to a study of the word "elect" (Strong's 1588). Try to substitute "all men" in those passages, as your teaching asserts, and see if they make sense. In Him, Doc |
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5 | Does Jn 15:16 "choosing" apply to us? | John 15:16 | Ocelot | 166569 | ||
Dear Doc, I wasn’t trying to do an in-depth word study, but to simply approach the question from a different angle. I wasn’t sure if Huron was asking if John 15:16 meant that God “predestined” some to salvation while He “predestined” others to destruction. I just figured I’d cover that base. Ocelot |
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