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NASB | John 15:16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 15:16 "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and I have appointed and placed and purposefully planted you, so that you would go and bear fruit and keep on bearing, and that your fruit will remain and be lasting, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name [as My representative] He may give to you. |
Subject: Does Jn 15:16 "choosing" apply to us? |
Bible Note: Dear Ocelot, You wrote, "Christ’s choosing is not limited to those who are saved." This initial statement leads me to think that you are referring to the reprobate. If so, I'd agree, although I wouldn't use John 3:16 to make the point. (That passage is descriptive in nature, not prescriptive.) The eternal destiny of the elect is fundamentally insured through the decretive will of God (Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:3-6). The eternal destiny of all others is insured through the permissive will of God. In other words, the former is an act of commission while the latter is an act of ommission. Your inclusion of 2 Peter 3:9, on the other hand, implies that you are attempting to assert something about election. Inferring only from the emphasis you have added to these verses -- since your statements are unclear -- it appears that you are making some kind of assertion involving the doctrine of libertarian free will. I have stated the orthodox position on 2 Peter 3:9 pretty clearly on the forum in the past. I've nothing to add. Your final statement is contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture. I'd commend you to a study of the word "elect" (Strong's 1588). Try to substitute "all men" in those passages, as your teaching asserts, and see if they make sense. In Him, Doc |