Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Not my will, but Yours be done... | Luke 22:42 | Reformer Joe | 70629 | ||
Since there has been so much talk on the nature and efficacy of God's will these past several days, I wanted to pose a question to the Forum in addressing what I consider to be the single most difficult account of God's will in Scripture. When Jesus is praying in Gethsemane, he asks His Father that the "cup" of the Cross be lifted from Him if God the Father is willing. He follows it up by saying "Yet not my will, but Yours be done." We know that Jesus and the Father share the same divine essence, and that Jesus, although also sharing our human essence, was not inclined to sin in any way. However, we see an apparent opposition of wills between two Persons of the Trinity. Granted, Jesus submits His will to the Father's, but the fact that He to a certain degree is unwilling to go to the Cross can be rather unsettling. As He is sweating drops of blood in the garden and dreading the process by which He will secure atonement for God's people, what are we to make of this statement? --Joe! |
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2 | Not my will, but Yours be done... | Luke 22:42 | jg8ball | 70658 | ||
Joe, I would interpret this passage in the following manner: Jesus was still human at the time. It's not a sin or even a question of a conflict of wills to ask the Father for something to be done if it's within His will to do so. Jesus wasn't saying He wouldn't do it. He was saying something more like "Father, this frail body I'm in can't take much more of this and if there's any other way to achieve your plan, I'm listening. But you know I'll do whatever you desire of me." (again this is my interpretation) The statement I would make is that Jesus felt the pain and anguish of the world. He probably also knew that His death wasn't going to save everyone because there would still be some that would not choose Jesus even after all He had done. Maybe he was asking for more time to convince the people to accept Him. I don't know if anyone else would agree with me, but that's what I get out of it. Also, the verse says that His sweat was like drops of blood (not actually drops of blood). I would interpret this to mean the sweat drops were large drops falling to the ground similar to someone that just finished a marathon race or eating some really spicy food. --John |
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3 | Not my will, but Yours be done... | Luke 22:42 | Reformer Joe | 70694 | ||
John: Thanks for your response! You wrote: "I would interpret this passage in the following manner: Jesus was still human at the time." As a side note, I believe that the Bible shows us that Jesus is STILL human. "It's not a sin or even a question of a conflict of wills to ask the Father for something to be done if it's within His will to do so. Jesus wasn't saying He wouldn't do it." Oh, I agree that Jesus isn't saying He wouldn't do it; but it seems pretty clear that part of Him wasn't WANTING to do it -- at least not in this way. He prays that, if the Father is willing, the cup would pass from Him. God apparently says, "No." It is passages like this one that makes it obvious that Jesus is more than "God wearing skin." Jesus, being completely human (minus sin), possessed human emotions, a human intellect, and with respect to His humanity, finite knowledge (Mark 13:32). That is why I think we are walking on very precarious ground when we try to "psychoanalyze" Jesus, assuming He is always speaking and reacting from His divine nature (which he undoubtedly does often -- Luke 10:18; John 8:58) when He may not be doing so. A similar case would be Lazarus. Jesus intentionally let Lazarus die and lie in the grave for days before coming to see the family. He knew that He was going to raise Lazarus from the dead, and that the sadness of Mary and Martha was only to be momentary. Yet Jesus himself wept, and John offers no explanation as to why Jesus would weep if He orchestrated the whole death-resurrection scenario Himself. It is more evidence that Jesus and His emotions and His will during His earthly ministry are much more complex than we acknowledge at first glance. --Joe! |
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4 | Not my will, but Yours be done... | Luke 22:42 | stjones | 70701 | ||
Hi, Joe, and Merry Christmas; You said 'Oh, I agree that Jesus isn't saying He wouldn't do it; but it seems pretty clear that part of Him wasn't WANTING to do it -- at least not in this way. He prays that, if the Father is willing, the cup would pass from Him. God apparently says, "No."' The essence of obedience is doing what we don't want to do. The doctrine of the Trinity says that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are in some ways distinct while being unified in others. I suppose that Jesus' most distinct attribute is his humanity. Given the Bible's emphasis on Jesus' obedience, perhaps we can conclude that Jesus (fully human and fully God) and the Father (fully God) had "differences of opinion" arising from Jesus' humanity that would never escalate to the level of dispute or outright rebellion. This in turn leads me to speculate that the Holy Spirit is very much like Jesus minus the humanity. This might be supported by Paul's assertion in 1 Cor 2:16 that "we have the mind of Christ". Finally, I might speculate that the divine natures of the three persons of the Trinity are in perfect concert while Jesus' human nature adds a little unique salt to the whole. Just a little thinking at the keyboard as I prepare to celebrate his arrival in human form - a celebration made a little more meaningful to this father of daughters by the presence of my 11-week-old grandson. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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5 | Not my will, but Yours be done... | Luke 22:42 | Reformer Joe | 70710 | ||
Indy: Thanks for your input, and congratulations on the new addition to your family! I rejoice with you. You wrote: "The essence of obedience is doing what we don't want to do." In a certain sense, I can see your point. Faithful obedience, in my view, is indeed wanting to yield to God's will, even at great personal cost. It is the joyful acknowledgement that God knows best and works all things together for my good. That is the truth of the matter; whether my own thoughts consistently correspond to thet turth is another issue entirely... You also wrote: 'Given the Bible's emphasis on Jesus' obedience, perhaps we can conclude that Jesus (fully human and fully God) and the Father (fully God) had "differences of opinion" arising from Jesus' humanity that would never escalate to the level of dispute or outright rebellion.' When the early church was wrestling with these issues and eventually came up with the Chalcedonian Definition in 451 (http://www.reformed.org/documents/chalcedon.html), the way they saw the resolution to this problem is what while the human nature of Christ and His divine nature were in perfect union, they remained distinct. In other words, there is no mixture of the two natures. Some theologians refer to this as a hypostatic union between the two natures in one Person. There is communication of information, however, from one nature to the other. Jesus displayed His knowledge of some things that only God could know, and asserted His ignorance of other things. We are treading on holy ground when we talk about this, but Jesus' human nature was not omniscient, while His divine nature always has been so. His true humanity lends a very unique variable to the equation, one that God is His sovereignty has not condescended to explain fully to us. --Joe! |
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6 | Not my will, but Yours be done... | Luke 22:42 | stjones | 70738 | ||
Hi, Joe; Thanks. Combining your comments with what I said earlier, I had another thought. This isn't theology; it's just a human trying to get his mind around Christmas. In the beginning, the Triune God was what he was - three persons in one in perfect harmony. Then God created humanity. Creation was a one-way act; God was still God but humans were something new. He lost nothing of himself by imbuing us with his spiritual nature. Then the first Christmas came and Jesus "stepped over the stars to Bethlehem and Jerusalem." Is not Jesus changed forever by becoming fully human? Are not the other two, God the Father and the Holy Spirit, changed as well? What love! The Creator has traversed creation in the opposite direction. He has incorporated his creation into himself. As a Christian, I think of God bestowing a part of his own nature on humanity. As a woodworker and computer geek, I think of "putting myself" into my work, making it uniquely my own. Now I realize that when I complete a project, it also becomes part of me - lessons learned, satisfaction received, the experience of creating. Before Creation, before there was any matter, God was infinite spirit. But now God has a finite, nail-scarred body. God entered time and space as a baby. He returned bodily to Heaven, bringing time and space with him. And by that act, he brings us, creatures of time and space, with him. "Praise Him in the heavens. Praise him in the stable. Praise Him in my heart." Peace and grace Steve aka Indiana Jones (quotes from Joseph Bayley's "Psalms of My Life", "A Psalm for Christmas Eve") |
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