Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | Reformer Joe | 4568 | ||
How does Acts 2:38 "fulfill" Matthew 28's command? Unless one pre-supposes a modalistic, anti-trinitarian view that Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I do not see how this verse in any way fulfills the command. In addition, Christ commands his disciples to do the baptizing with this formula. He doesn't say that he is going to do it himself at Pentecost. It would seem unreasonable to me that Christ (a) commands the eleven to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and then (b) somehow fulfills this himself in Acts 2. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. There are just two many passages in Scripture that would either make Jesus either schizophrenic or deceptive if it were so. --Joe! |
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2 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | RevC | 4573 | ||
Interestingly enough Jesus was not scizophrenic,yet he did call himself the father and the holy spirit....first of all collosians tells us that in Jesus dwelleth the fullness of the God head bodily, Isaiah tell us He(Jesus) shall be called wonderful,counselor and the MIGHTY GOD...Jesus himself said if you have seen me you have seen the father.....Jesus also said He was the root of of Abraham and teh offspring of David. In the book of Revelation Jesus said he was the alpha and the omega..... .Thomas proclaimed to Jesus after the resurrection...My Lord, My God......John tells us in the beginning was the word the word was with God and the word was God and teh word became flesh and swelt amoung us......His name is Emmanual which means God is with us.... The list goes on and on and on... To suppose that there are actually three God is heresy and a very dangerous doctrine....... Peter,Paul and all the apostles understood this and this is how the baptismal formula is fulfilled in by the apostles. | ||||||
3 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | Reformer Joe | 4621 | ||
The Trinitarian Doctrine does not assert three Gods. One more time: 1. ONE God 2. THREE persons: Father, Son, Spirit 3. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God 4. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father. I agree with every passage you put forth which illustrates the deity of Christ. No Trinitarian argues this. It is our understanding of point 2 on which we disagree. In addition, oneness/"Jesus only"/modalism denies point 4. You cited John 1:1. How can the Word (Jesus) simultaneously be "with God" and BE "God" in a non-Trinitarian understanding? John 14:9: Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" Taken out of its context above, the verse could support a oneness theology. However, Jesus says throughout the chapter that he and the Father are distinct. They should believe in God and "also in him." (v. 1). Is he being redundant? He refers to the Father in the third person (v. 2). Is he suffering from multiple personalities? In verse 10 he very specifically says that he is not talking about himself, but rather the Father. In verse 16, he will communicate with the Father (talking to himself?) and the Father will send ANOTHER comforter (not him!). In verse 26 the Father will send the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Father is not the Spirit).. In short, this whole chapter has the roles clearly defined of the different persons of the Trinity. Jesus makes it very clear that there is communication and interaction between the three Persons, and that he is not the Father Himself, but rather that the Father is in Him and that He is in the Father (v. 11), much as the Spirit will indwell believers (v. 17) without us BEING the Holy Spirit. If you are looking for a section of Scripture to support modalism, John 14-17 is definitely NOT the place to start! Jesus is God, without a doubt; but he is NOT the Father, and he is NOT the Holy Spirit. --Joe! |
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4 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | RevC | 4663 | ||
Here is some food for thought on trinity and oneness 1. Is the word trinity in the Bible? No. 2. Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No. 3. Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes. 4. Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity. 5. Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-I John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, "These three are one." 6. Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; I Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; I Timothy 2:5; James 2:19. 7. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16. 8. Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9. 9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9)? Because Jesus is the express image of God's person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for personin this verse literally means "substance." 10. Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No. 11. Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3. 12. Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22. 13. Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10. 14. Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; II Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent. 15. Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16. 16. When God said, "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10. 17. How many of God's qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9. 18. How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9. 19. Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8 20. Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father. 21. Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18 22. How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2. 23. If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate. 24. Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10 25. Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19. 26. Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14. 27. For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14. 28. Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. I Timothy 3:16. 29. Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13. 30. Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5. 31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11. 33. How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (I Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh. 34. Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8. 35. Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10. 36. What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8. 37. What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2. 38. How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4. 39. How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9. 40. Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16. 42. Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16. 43. Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7. 44. Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior. 45. Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25. 46. Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13. |
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5 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | Reformer Joe | 4740 | ||
RevC, I am notified by email every time someone responds to my post. You do not have to copy and paste an IDENTICAL list of misinformation to everyone who declares the trinity, especially when at least 35 of the above assertions are also held by Trinitarians. For those of you just joining us, I addressed all of these, point-by-point, when he inundated the forum with this same post just minutes ago. Rather than simply pasting the same email, why not actually dialogue with Trinitarians. This "one-size-fits-all" post didn't really answer mine at all. My exegesis of John 14 was not addressed at all. Just spitting up a laundry list of stuff in response is not a credibility-enhancing activity. Now how does Oneness explain that a plain reading of John 14 shows the three persons of the Trinity interacting with each other, communicating with each other, sending each other, if they are all really just Jesus? The Son talks to the Father; the Father sends the Son and the Spirit, etc., etc. While you are at it, look at the rest of John 14-17 and give us a Oneness take on an apparently Trinitarian chunk of Scripture. Thanks! --Joe! |
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6 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | Percival | 4836 | ||
Dear Joe, Please abstain from using the exclamation mark, as it makes you appear angry. Even though I have found myself very much in agreement with many of your remarks on doctrine, anger does not become a disciple of Jesus. If I may, I would ask that if you consider your opponent an heretic, does that mean you also consider him unworthy of salvation? If this is the case, he needs to be led to truth in love and compassion. Rather, if you consider him saved, but misled, is he not still your brother? These thoughts crossed my mind when reading some of your posts. Praise the Lord! |
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7 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | Reformer Joe | 4890 | ||
If exclamation and strong words do not become a disciple of Jesus, then I need to go tear 1 and 2 Corinthians out of my Bible! :) As far as my stance, I consider all human beings, including myself, unworthy of salvation. That is the beauty of God's grace! (That is an exclamation point of praise, by the way, not anger.) Nowhere in Scripture do we have a model of Old Testament judges, Christ, or the apostles going easy on heresy. While I bear no personal animosity toward any Oneness adherent, what they hold to is most definitely heresy. One of the greatest problems in our church today is that sound, life-changing theology has been discarded for the sake of "everybody getting along." While we should without a doubt glorify God through our actions, that also includes telling the truth about his word, and speaking out against its dilution or distortion. Thanks for your comments, in any case. Praise the Lord in word and in deed! --Joe! |
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8 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | Percival | 4911 | ||
Joe, I do not propose discarding sound theology for the sake of "everybody getting along." I simply remember that, though I am called to abhor sin, "But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you..." Matt 5:44 and "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord." Lev 19:18. Please do not tear any pages from your Bible on my account. I understand the temptation to claim we are following Jesus' example (toward the Temple moneychangers)when we proclaim righteous anger, but at the expense of love? Praise the Lord! |
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9 | Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit? | Matt 28:19 | coffee | 56512 | ||
Ditto Percival, well said and I am so glad that you said that. | ||||||