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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | left during flood,left second coming | Matt 24:39 | Hecameforu | 34248 | ||
Brother Markarios, You have explained your view just fine. First I must apologize if I didn't represent my view well. You said "I'm not quite sure of how "those who will be left behind" are those who will be raptured". What I meant by "left behind" is as it states in 1 Thes 4:16-17"and the dead in christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds”. Basically, the Church. Again I didn't explain myself well with Acts 1:11. You're absolutely right, it's not how many people were there to see him ascend, it's the fact that he was taken up in a cloud, very quietly, with only believers seeing him and this is how I believe the Rapture will be, as he states in Matthew 24:37,39. My main point here sir is this: Matthew 24:30 states of Jesus coming in Power and Great Glory. He says that all the tribes on the earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. Now, in verse 31 he sends his angels to gather the elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to another. This is way different than the son of man coming like a thief in the night, in the twinkling of an eye. Do you see the difference between the coming of our Lord in Verse 30 and the way the lord describes it in verses 37,39. This is not a discrepancy, but the “Rapture” and then the coming in Power and Great Glory. You said: “since 1 Thess. 4:17 is speaking of how we are 'caught up', and 'caught up' and 'taken' (in Matthew 24) are very close in meaning. I believe that the church will be 'caught up' and 'taken' away, leaving those who will suffer God's wrath to be left behind.” Exactly Marcarios, the church will be caught up leaving those behind to suffer the wrath in the tribulation. Then after the tribulation is the coming in Power and Great Glory, the gathering of the elect and those all across heaven, chaining and throwing Satan into the bottomless pit, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years…. etc, etc. Overcomers of what?? We have to overcome every day, as you well know. There are also Christians in the world these days that are killed for their beliefs and I'm sure it's going to get worse. Sorry but my question "Who is on the earth for Satan to deceive” was somewhat rhetorical but thank you for you answer. A few other points if I may: Rev 4:1-2 is after the church age and before the tribulation. The location of this event is right for the Rapture, a representation of the Church in Heaven. Chapters 2 and 3 deal with the seven successive periods of church history. Chapters 4 and 5 present a vision in heaven and chapter 6 introduces the Tribulation Period. Another point I would like to make is the fact that the “Church’ is referred to 16 times in the first 3 chapters of Revelation whereas chapters 6 through 18, which cover the tribulation, do not mention the Church once. The natural conclusion drawn from this is that the Church will be absent from the events of the Tribulation. The rapture of the Church is not explicitly taught in Revelation 4 but definitely appears here chronologically at the end of the Church age and before the Tribulation. I’m sure we agree that Revelation is in chronological order. Thanks for the discussion. I await your thoughts if you are so inlcined Have a great night Barry |
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2 | left during flood,left second coming | Matt 24:39 | Makarios | 34461 | ||
Greetings Barry! Thank you for your response! 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is 'hands-down' the most popular verse when it comes to eschatology! This verse tells me that the church will be raptured, and it will not be "left behind." If God is going to have a 'rapturing' of souls at all, then there has to be a very good reason why He is taking souls off of the earth in such quantity! The reason that I have found is that He will do this to spare the church from His wrath that He will pour out onto the world. However, it is clear to me that 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is speaking of 'The Day of the Lord' (which is also known as The Second Coming of Jesus Christ). The very verse that precedes 1 Thess. 4:16-17 (verse 15), is clearly speaking about the "..coming of the Lord..". Also, the very next verses that follow 1 Thess. 4:16-17 (1 Thess. 5:1-11), speak about and describe 'The Day of the Lord', which is the Day when Christ makes His return to earth. The Second Coming of Christ will come like a "thief in the night." (Matthew 24:36-37,43) In no way was the ascension of Christ something that was "quiet." (Acts 1:9-11) You will have to find Scripture to back up your assertion that the ascension of Christ was "quiet." The whole meaning of the illustration of Christ's coming as a "thief in the night" is that Christ will come at a time that nobody can forecast or expect! It is something that will happen instantly, or in a "twinkling of an eye"! We must be ready for it, since there will be no 'clue' given to us until He comes in all His majesty and glory! We must be ready for His return. The Second Coming of Christ will be like a "thief in the night" AND Christ will return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords! There was no "quietness" about His ascension, and there will be no "quiet" rapture or "quiet" Second Coming. Such a position cannot be supported by Scripture. If you believe that the Rapture and Christ's Second Coming are two different or separate events, then you are clearly proven wrong by Scripture in 1 Thess. 4:16-17, where it states "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." Therefore, the Rapture MUST take place at the Second Coming of Christ. You see, there can only be ONE Second Coming. There will not be a Second Coming, and then another Second Coming. The Second Coming of Christ will occur only once. Those who are left on earth after the Rapture are positioned to endure God's wrath, since He will come to take and conquer the armies of Satan at the Battle of Armageddon. The coming of Christ in 'Great power and Great Glory' happens at the SAME time that the church is raptured from the earth. There is no "secret" rapture, and there is only one Second Coming of Christ. As for your commentary on Revelation 4:1-2, through chapters 4, 5 and through 18, you can check it against my interpretation of the same passages in Revelation, which is found at http://www.revelationcommentary.org which I am sure that you will find most interesting. :-) I appreciate your thoughts on the discussion! Feel free to respond to anything that I have shared with you here. However, if you disagree, then I specifically ask that you would provide Scripture for some solid support. Your Brother in Christ, Makarios |
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3 | left during flood,left second coming | Matt 24:39 | Hecameforu | 34472 | ||
Hello Makarios I believe I misspelt your name on a previous post. Sorry for that. My point on the "quiet" ascension is that only "believers" saw Jesus taken up in the cloud. We're just going to have to view this differently is all. Anyway, Matthew 24:30 states that "and then the sign of the Son of Man" and then "all the tribes mourn" and then "they will see the son of man coming". What exactly is the "sign" of the son of man? Barry |
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4 | left during flood,left second coming | Matt 24:39 | Makarios | 34475 | ||
Greetings Barry! I forgive you! :-) You asked "What exactly is the 'sign' of the son of man?" Excellent question! I believe that the answer to that question is found in Matthew 24:29 and in Joel 2:31. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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