Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | Coper44 | 184810 | ||
CDBJ, Sometimes we must use more than a few words to adequately explain certain points. I've read many past posts on this site that are quite long also. One of the rules of this forum, I believe, is to avoid being too brief because it can come across as rude or offensive. I guess it depends on whether one agrees with what is being posted, right? You asked: "With regards to your understanding of the message spoken by Jesus on the mount, do you believe the Christ returned during the lifetime of his disciples?" My answer: The context of the passage, as I read it, leaves no doubt that Jesus either returned during their lifetime, or His prophecy was in error. I believe He and all the Apostles were true to their word, and that He -by necessity- returned to the generation to which He spoke. If you or anyone who reads this post can show that the writers and/or their audiences expected Christ to come at some distant point in their future after they were dead and gone, I'd be interested in examining your findings. I really appreciate this exchange. These types of discussions of God's Word prove to sharpen our understanding and deepen our relationship with the One Who redeemed us. Coper |
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2 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | CDBJ | 184823 | ||
Hi Coper, Since John was the last Apostle to give us scripture; the book of Revelation, in aprox. early AD 90s and the rest had already passed away, which of the life times did Christ return in, since all the rest were already deceased; or did John miss out on the return of Christ and wasn’t taken or mayby the Lord didn't know where he was at the time? With your train of thought it has to be one or the other, CDBJ |
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3 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | Coper44 | 184829 | ||
CDBJ, The book of Revelation was written approx. 65AD-66AD. The claims of a late date (95AD-96AD) are not based on solid evidence. They are based on a few questionable quotes. Again, you're always better off trusting Scripture as opposed to man's wisdom as stjohn has pointed out. The internal evidence from the book of Revelation itself shows that John wrote it during the earlier date. For example look at Rev. 11:1- Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, "Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there... If John in fact wrote The Revelation in the 90's you would expect at least a mention of the catastrophic events of 70AD just twenty five years earlier. Instead he says that he is told to measure the temple. This would be possible in 65AD, but not 95AD. I have asked those who hold to the late date if the events described in Revelation took place soon after 95AD since John clearly said that the events would take place shortly. There is no evidence of anything happening around 100AD that comes close to the events of 70AD. I would encourage you to read the several books out there that challenge the claims of a late date theory. I believe the evidence shows that all the NT books were completed by 70AD so John didn't miss the return of Christ at all! Coper |
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4 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | CDBJ | 184830 | ||
Are you saying that the rapture has already happened? CDBJ |
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5 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | Coper44 | 184840 | ||
CDBJ, I believe that every word of Scripture is true. Because I believe that, I am compelled to believe that all of the prophetic events recorded in Sripture have taken place. The rapture, resurrection and the judgement were to take place at Christ's coming. The coming of Christ is consistently said to be near, at hand, happening shortly, about to be etc., to those in the first century. Therefore, by faith, though I don't know all the details, I believe the rapture took place. Coper |
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6 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | jlhetrick | 184847 | ||
Hello Coper, forgive me if you have already been directed to this passage of scripture. since you have continued your preterist teaching in more than one thread now I just haven't had the time to read all the posts though I am aware of the strategy. You write that you "believe that every word of Scripture is true". Then considering the very words of our Lord regarding the issue at hand. While I agree that eschatology is a secondary issue, the Lord spent a significant amount of words and gave a significant amount of "detail" so that we would at least not be confused to the level that you currently are. Matt 24:15-31 15 "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, 'Look, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, 'Look, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. The Coming of the Son of Man 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ESV Absolutely nothing close to what Christ Himself described has been recorded in any source of history and I confidently say that such events could not possibly occur and not be recorded and discussed world-wide. I mean, the "Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with POWER AND GREAT GLORY". And lets not forget the "loud trumpet call" and the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people instantly being gathered up and taken away. Even the much more quiet, local event of Christ's resurrection couldn't be kept from the historical records by the political powers of the day. How much more obvious, to the saved and unsaved alike, will be the tremendous event that will be witnessed by "all the tribes of the earth" In your original post on this issue you presented as though you were wanting the Forum to "...shed some light on this subject and redirect me back to a more proper understanding of Scripture". Well of course that statement is more than suspect at this point and it seems clear that your intentions were actually come to the forum and shed some light for those of us that just don't get it. Personally, I would rather see the Forum's "Terms of Use" more closely adhered to. Since you have shielded yourself from the light that has been shed, perhaps it's time to move on to a different subject and thus gain some benefit from forum participation. Jesus said "Matt 24:26 26 So, if they say to you, 'Look, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, 'Look, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it." (ESV) I take those words to heart and caution others that if anyone should say "look, he came in 65AD, or 90AD, or 95AD"; do not believe it. for when He comes He will come "on the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory." God bless, Jeff |
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7 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | Coper44 | 184872 | ||
Jeff, I must say that I never anticipated this type of response when I entered this forum. I asked a question and thought it would be answered. I haven't purposely shielded myself from the light, I simply haven't received an answer. I am beginning to wonder if the futurist perspective has had a weakness exposed. As to the Matt. 24:15-31 passage. You wrote: "Absolutely nothing close to what Christ Himself described has been recorded in any source of history and I confidently say that such events could not possibly occur and not be recorded and discussed world-wide." I have learned to be careful when making these types of statements. Unless one has studied the events of 70AD exhaustively, and been able to rule it out definitively, he is not qualified to rule out a first century coming as at least a possibility. Again, and I say this with humility and respect, when you read the passage you've referred to in it's proper context, Jesus was telling his disciples (not some unmentioned future generation) to recognize the signs of His coming. Please take the time to think through this before responding. This is an example of a previous question that has gone unanswered. When Jesus told Peter, James, John and Andrew, "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)(Matt. 24:15), wasn't He, in effect, unsealing the book of Daniel that was previously sealed? If not, why would Jesus even mention it here? If the answer is yes, then they were living in the time of the end. Obviously not the end of the earth, but the end of the Old Covenant age. And again, immediately after the Matt. 24:29-31 passage you quoted, Jesus said, "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place (Matt. 24:32-34). Notice Jesus said "all these things" twice in this passage referring back to all that had been said up to this point which would include Matt. 24:29-31. If you were one of the four who heard His words, would you believe He would return in your generation? There is no mistaking the fact that the disciples later understood that His coming was near because that is what Christ Himself taught them (1 Pet. 4:7, James 5:7-9, Rev. 1:1-3) So, when you say, "I take those words to heart and caution others that if anyone should say "look, he came in 65AD, or 90AD, or 95AD"; do not believe it. for when He comes He will come "on the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory.", in light of the context of the passage, you are misusing it, right? It would be like you or I reading the words of Abraham Lincoln and warning others of an impending civil war in the Uninted States. Sometimes it's not easy being challenged to defend what you belive. I've had my share of times feeling stressed and overwhelmed at the possiblity that there is another view that just might be closer to the truth than what I had been conditioned to believe. But, I am compelled to trust Scripture over man's wisdom (Rom. 3:4). I would appreciate your blessing in allowing me to continue to comment on this forum even though you don't agree with my views. While I can't control how others respond to my views, Preterism is an accepted form of interpreting Scripture and it could be beneficial to those who have not been exposed to it. Coper |
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8 | EXPLAIN MATTHEW 24 VS. 1-10 | Matt 24:1 | jlhetrick | 184875 | ||
Coper, I can appreciate that you did not anticipate the types of responses you are getting on the forum. We see many come and go that jump in with both feet attempting to push their biased views. Less frequently do those initiate the dialogue under the pretense that they 1) have little understanding regarding the topic of their question when they truly believe they do, and 2) comment that they are off track and want to be redirected "back to Scripture" when they really don't believe they are off track; and in fact the goal is to pull others into their view. So you will have to appreciate that as you began to reveal yourself, your credibility quickly became questionable. Furthermore, you continually accuse others, including myself, of "abusing" and "misusing" Scripture. All the while you continue to use Scripture loosely to support your own ideas while rejecting any possibility that ALL of those responding to you might have a point. You wrote: "Unless one has studied the events of 70AD exhaustively, and been able to rule it out definitively, he is not qualified to rule out a first century coming as at least a possibility." DONE and ruled out definitely; thus, the realization that Christ has not yet returned "on the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory". I do appreciate your enthusiasm and as you have studied up on the issue for all of a year now (according to your words) I hope you will follow your own advise and continue with your research. As for your less than relevant remark about reading Abraham Lincoln the answer is no. We have a very accurate collaboration of historical information to verify the Civil War has occurred. It's in sticking to the topic that we find that there is not that same type of reliable information to support the history that you wholeheartedly teach. In all honestly Coper, the short time you have spent looking into this subject really only begins to qualify some good guessing; hardly sufficient to position yourself as a teacher of the topic. In the mean time keep in mind. In speaking of His return, Jesus said no man knows the hour or the day. In speaking of His return Jesus also said that when it does occur it will be obvious to everyone and "all the tribes of the Earth" will see it. That, being the grandest and most obvious reality of the prophecy should be what you are looking for. If you corroborate that with history, please, bring it to our attention. As for my blessing in allowing you to continue on the forum, you don't need it but you certainly have it. With that said though, I won't be responding further to this this topic as I see it unfruitful and plenty divisive. And know, I don't place all the blame for that on you. God bless, Jeff |
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