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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | charis | 16668 | ||
Dear Sir, Friend, this lapses into tedium... I well understand your point, but your point strains Biblical interpretation toward an emotional bent. Also, with all due respect, your logic defies reality. How do we know that unilateral disarmament will not bring the world about? I suppose that same way we know that gravity will draw you to earth if you jump off a cliff. Sir, I am not being facetious! Unilateral disarmament HAS been tried historically numerous times. If we lived in a world that was ruled by common sense, common morality, and common faith it WOULD work. But until the Lord returns, we live in a perverse age. You mistakenly think that we will 'change the world' with love. Well, this works in the movies, but goes against the Bible. Jesus spoke so many of His words to a nation that knew the Lord, a society that had a fundamental faith in one God. He spoke to a community that was to despise the 'outside world' and it's ways. We now live in an amalgamated world, the faithful amongst the wolves. "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; therefore be shrewd as serpents, and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASB In my humble opinion, your pendulum is swung to the left. Jesus preached balance, not bent. You are correct in that we are called to be merciful, but not at the expense of justice. You are mixing crimes, we are talking of murderers. As to grace to salvation, God is well able to take care of that. My actions will not negate His work. Indeed, free will HAS been discussed elsewhere. A search of these previous threads will reveal that I am no Calvinist :-) However, any way you argue it, if you think that man's choice affects his and other's salvation, then you clearly infringe on God's sovereignty. I do believe in the responsibility of believers to follow Jesus. But unless God instigates it, it will not happen! Finally to your finally: Jesus had a purpose on earth...the Cross awaited Him. As a lamb to slaughter, He went to glory. But the Lord clearly advised us to be strong in our faith, not sacrifices to foolishness and the wanton behavior of the world. It is one thing to submit to earthly authority for the sake of the name of Jesus, but quite another to submit to the whims of an immoral society. Sir, I am not preaching aggressive behavior, just the common wisdom that the Lord gave us. Yes, we must be careful, but not foolish! Yes, we are to be 'fools for Christ,' but not fools toward the world and it's unholy ways. In Jesus' name, charis |
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2 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | Sir Pent | 16777 | ||
Dear Charis, You said "unilateral disarmament has been tried historically numerous times", however, it has never been accomplished on a global sense. On a smaller scale, Ghandi was able to use passive resistance very effectively to defend freedoms in both South Africa and India. As for whether this is even possible to accomplish on a worldwide scale, you and EdB both bring up an important point. The Bible says that there will be wars all the way to the end of time. Therefore, we know that worldwide peace will not come unitl Jesus comes back. I completely agree with that. However, the Bible also says that the way to destruction is wide, that there will always be a remnant (implying small minority) of true believers, and that the way to salvation is narrow. This seems to clearly say that there will also never be a worldwide conversion to Christianity. But just because we know that we WILL NOT be completely successful at worldwide fulfillment of the "great commission" does not mean that we shouldn't at least attempt to accomplish it in our own lives. You also said that there was a difference between choosing "to submit to earthly authority for the sake of the name of Jesus, but quite another to submit to the whims of an immoral society". I would agree with the statement, but I don't think I agree with the intent. In my perspective, when I allow a criminal (or enemy in war) to kill me instead of me killing them, I am doing it for the sake of Jesus. I am laying down my life so that they may live longer and have a chance to repent and develop a relationship with God. Of course you said that for me to think that this decision on my part or any decision on their part cannot affect their salvation in any way. If you (and many other forum members) are correct, that nothing we do has any affect on our own or anyone else's salvation, then sure kill the people. But at the same time that would mean that there are only selfish reasons to send missionaries anywhere, or to strive for holiness in our own lives. Finally, you also mentioned that this thread "lapses into tedium". Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you. I think that I have shared all the ideas that I have, and almost everyone else is on the other side of the issue or staying silent. Therefore, perhaps it is time for there to be a wrap-up post to summarize a consensus of what has been discussed. Since you started this thread, I would nominate you for the honor. P.S. That was a nice touch quoting the verse which my user ID is related to. How can I argue with that :) |
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3 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | charis | 16804 | ||
Dear Sir, Well said, my friend. Believe me when I say that I respect your opinion, though I disagree with you in several areas. I don't know that I am worthy of summing up, or stating a concensus, but I would like to clear up a few things, then rest my case. I do not believe that the sovereignty of God in eternal mattters absolves us from temporal responsibility to pursue holiness or preach the Gospel to the lost. I could hardly justify my own existence if this were so. I serve the Lord as a missionary in a very lost nation, am obsessed with personal evangelism, and actively seek personal wholeness and holiness in accord with the Bible. I also encourage others to be of like mind every opportunity I get. But I totally depend on the Lord Jesus for the *final* decision, and give Him full credit for all the important steps along the way. This is why I don't qualify for either the Calvinist or Arminian label. :-) Friend, I cannot condemn your zeal for passivism. I, personally, do not believe that 'sacrificing' myself to a murderer will bring him a better opportunity for salvation, nor would providing him with a longer temporal span effect his 'decision' to know God. This honor and power I place entirely in God's capable hands. Just to set the record straight, I am not 'bloodthirsty, revenge-seeking, or battle-hungry' by any means. Nor am I an 'advocate' for capital punishment. I simply see submission to temporal authority and criminal justice as a present-day reality that will be abolished by the Lord at His return. I thank you for a great discussion! I do know your position better now, and will honor it before the Lord, knowing that He will reveal to all of us the truth. (Trust me, I have not 'decided' the truth, I just have an opinion based on study, observation, and my limited sensitivity to the leading of the Spirit) Blessings and peace in Jesus' name, charis |
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