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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | EdB | 16363 | ||
Sir Pent As to Matthew 26 and Luke 22, there are many reasons Jesus may have reacted the way He did. Three of the most probably are: One He didn’t want any of his disciples jailed or executed. Two Just as he didn’t call angels to defend Him he didn’t want His disciples to intervene, knowing He had to follow God’s will. Three Jesus had compassion on the servant and healed him. Let me ask you some questions, why does a person carry a sword? Do you think Jesus didn’t know his disciples were armed. Did he ever instruct them to lay down their swords other than the time he sent them out in ministry? While it is true we never see the disciples defend themselves when it comes to assaults brought on by their teaching/belief, we do have some indication that Paul defended himself when set upon by robbers (the fact he was alive). No where in the new Testament did Jesus condemn soldiers, prosecutors, or executors. Paul tells us to support our government, that it was God ordained. In fact he tells us to do so would preserve our lives. Where do you think the prohibition against execution is found in the Bible. And why do you think that passage only applies to executions and not to other forms of punishment? I really believe your whole argument is based on your exalted view of human life. God established the sanctity of life and God also established the parameters by which it is to be forfeited. You also expressed in a earlier response that by taking a life we may prevent that person from accepting salvation in Jesus. Isn’t that really limiting God? Aren’t you saying God must helplessly watched us execute someone that would have accepted Jesus if we had allowed him to live another minute, hour, week, month, year, lifetime. |
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2 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | Sir Pent | 16620 | ||
Dear EdB, You bring up several really good points. For instance, why did the disciples have swords to begin with? Oddly enough, it is because Jesus told them to bring them. (Luke 22:36). The obvious question is why would Jesus tell them to bring swords, and then when they were actually in the garden, tell them not to use them. I do not think that Jesus wanted them to be able to defend Him. Jesus said that 2 swords was enough, (Luke 22:38) although that would obviously NOT BE ENOUGH to stop an entire company of soldiers. It seems that instead Jesus just wanted to make it obvious that He was choosing to allow Himself to be arrested. The fact that they had at least a couple of swords, but still didn't use them showed that Jesus was not taken against His will, but within it. This made His sacrifice for us and our sins even greater. You also made a couple points about humanists, and imply that possibly I am one. The first was that "humanists believe they are god". That is probably true of extreme humanists, but it is definately not true of me (I do not consider myself a humanist at all). Your also said that "to a humanist life is far more important than salvation". This is also completely not true according to my beliefs. In fact, I think this thread would greatly go against that thought. My basis for being against killing humans is that it removes the chance for them to come to salvation in the future. In fact, in the case of me allowing a criminal to kill me or my family instead of me killing them shows that I value their chance for salvation more than my own life or even my family's life. In fact, it is the position of my opponents who say that the lives of people on this earth are more important that the eternal life and salvation of the criminal. You make one more good point that I would like to comment on. You said that I seem to be limiting God by arguing that we as humans can take away a person's chance for redemption. This issue really just comes back to the question of "free will" versus "predestination" that comes up so often on this forum. If you believe in predestination, then my entire argument is useless. If God already has decided who goes to Heaven and Hell before they are born, then it doesn't really matter what we do to a person in this life. This life is so short in comparison to eternity, that it is almost completely insignificant, and so who cares if we kill someone 40 years before they would naturally die. Conceeding this point, I would have to say that on the other hand, if a person believes in "free will", then they believe that God has limited His own abilities enough to give people a choice. God could have created people so that they would have to follow Him and love Him or so that they would have to not do those things. However, if they didn't have a choice then it would have been empty and meaningless. But this has been thoroughly covered in other threads. I would suggest that instead of rehashing all that, we just focus on whether the death penalty is appropriate from a "free will" perspective. |
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3 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | EdB | 16652 | ||
Sir Pent First let me say I do not think your a humanist. However you like most of us have been influenced to some degree by the humanist. I think the magnified value of human life many hold is based in humanism. While I believe in free will, I also believe God through the Holy Spirit plays a big past in salvation. I have prayed with and for many people that said to me they had no idea what made them come to saving knowledge of the Holy Spirit. I have seen people walk in from the street and say I don't know what I'm doing here but something told me to come in, I want to know Jesus! I have seen a man preach a whole sermon in English (he does not know Spanish) and have a woman come forward to receive Christ. He talked to her and she to him and together they prayed the prayer of salvation, it was only after the service did anyone learn the woman only talked Spanish and had heard everything in Spanish. How did she hear him and he her? I say the Holy Spirit. I know my life there was a time that I just knew that I knew I had to get right with the Lord. Do I think I could have done anything to mess any of these incidents up? I would have to say NO! I believe anyone that is going to come to Christ will have the opportunity before they die, I think this is what is meant by God wills that none would perish. Therefore to me your argument does not hold up. |
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4 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | Sir Pent | 16767 | ||
Dear EdB, I'm glad you don't think I'm a humanist, nor do I think that you are. I also agree with you that God works in mysterious ways to bring people to Himself. Those are powerful stories that you mentioned about people understanding a salvation prayer in a language that they don't know. I would disagree with you that we cannot do "anything to mess any of these incidents up". For instance, that woman could have decided to not go to church that night. If she had not been open to God's leading, then she would have missed out on the gift that He wanted her to have. I agree with you that God calls us first, and with so many other things that you have said in this thread. I just come to some different conclusions, and I appreciate that we can disagree in love. |
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5 | 'Conscientious Objection' Biblical? | Ex 20:13 | EdB | 16776 | ||
You are most gracious, Sir! | ||||||