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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Using the word Lucifer | Is 14:12 | Searcher56 | 217802 | ||
God's day to you, Vintage68, I think Lucifer is a mistranslation. Please read post 217716. What do you think? If you disagree, please provide more than Strongs. S |
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2 | Using the word Lucifer | Is 14:12 | Makarios | 217804 | ||
Greetings Searcher! I've noticed that that NKJV and KJV both translate 'heylel' as Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 instead of 'morning star' or shining one/Daystar. The NET Bible notes do support the possibility of mistranslation: "What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12-15? This whole section (vv. 4b-21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in vv. 9ff., he is called “the man” in v. 16, and, according to vv. 19-20, he possesses a physical body. Nevertheless the language of vv. 12-15 has led some to see a dual referent in the taunt song. These verses, which appear to be spoken by other pagan kings to a pagan king (cf. vv. 9-11), contain several titles and motifs that resemble those of Canaanite mythology, including references to Helel son of Shachar, the stars of El, the mountain of assembly, the recesses of Zaphon, and the divine title Most High. Apparently these verses allude to a mythological story about a minor god (Helel son of Shachar) who tried to take over Zaphon, the mountain of the gods. His attempted coup failed and he was hurled down to the underworld. The king of Babylon is taunted for having similar unrealized delusions of grandeur. Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, “Isaiah,” BKCOT, 1061)." [Quoted from www.bible.org - Isaiah 14:12] Therefore, would the question be that this is a Textus Receptus (NKJV/KJV) vs. NU manuscript translation (just about everything else) difference since those translations that claim reliance on the Textus Receptus generally have "lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12? If that is true - that the NKJV and KJV are translating "Lucifer" based on the tradition of translation from the Textus Receptus or from the Textus Receptus itself, then it could all just boil down to manuscript family preference. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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3 | Using the word Lucifer | Is 14:12 | Morant61 | 217810 | ||
Greetings Makarios! Interesting question my friend! I did a little checking, and I could not find any evidence that there is a manuscript question involved. It appears that some just simply mistranslated the word entirely - for some reason. Here are some sample comments about Is. 14:12: Clarke writes: "But the truth is, the text speaks nothing at all concerning Satan nor his fall, nor the occasion of that fall, which many divines have with great confidence deduced from this text. O how necessary it is to understand the literal meaning of Scripture, that preposterous comments may be prevented! Besides, I doubt much whether our translation be correct. heilel, which we translate Lucifer, comes from yalal, yell, howl, or shriek, and should be translated, “Howl, son of the morning;” and so the Syriac has understood it; and for this meaning Michaelis contends:" Barnes indicates that 'lucifer' comes from the Vulgate. Keil and Delitzsch comment: "Lucifer, as a name given to the devil, was derived from this passage, which the fathers (and lately Stier) interpreted, without any warrant whatever, as relating to the apostasy and punishment of the angelic leaders. The appellation is a perfectly appropriate one for the king of Babel, on account of the early date of the Babylonian culture, which reached back as far as the grey twilight of primeval times, and also because of its predominant astrological character." Let me know if you find any more info about the manuscripts. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Using the word Lucifer | Is 14:12 | DocTrinsograce | 217821 | ||
Hi, Tim... I can find references by Augustine to the interpretation of Isaiah 14:12 as you have mentioned. Interestingly enough, though, John Chrysostom -- arguably one of the greatest exegetes of Scripture in church history -- does not do so. Nevertheless, many in the early church seem to have held to the view that this was a reference to Satan. John Calvin comments on this verse thus, "The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians. But when passages of Scripture are taken up at random, and no attention is paid to the context, we need not wonder that mistakes of this kind frequently arise. Yet it was an instance of very gross ignorance, to imagine that Lucifer was the king of devils, and that the Prophet gave him this name. But as these inventions have no probability whatever, let us pass by them as useless fables." In Him, Doc |
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5 | Using the word Lucifer | Is 14:12 | Morant61 | 217831 | ||
Greetings Doc! Thanks for the good quote. :-) There are two separate issues with Is. 14:12. One involves translation, while the other involves interpretation. There appears to be absolutely no justification for translating the Hebrew word in Is. 14:12 as 'Lucifer'. There also appears to be no justifiction for interpreting the passage as a reference to Satan. So, I think Calvin was right on! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Using the word Lucifer | Is 14:12 | BradK | 217834 | ||
Hi Tim, Your point about the distinction between translation and interpretation is well founded! The Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains makes this observation- "helel; light-bearing object in the sky, Shining One, i.e., Morning star or Day star, the planet Venus, prominent in the morning, referring to the majesty and high status of a king (Isa 14:12), Note: KJV, NKJV translates as “Lucifer,” but it is begging the question to say this must then refer to Satan. Note: possibly this is a reference to a “crescent moon” based on analogous language studies" Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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