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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | pleasestate your undestandingof verse | Prov 16:33 | DocTrinsograce | 211587 | ||
Dear Kiley, The affection that people have for their own self determinism, entrenches this presupposition so deeply that neither logic nor authority can hope to dislodge it -- at least, neither logic nor authority alone. The human heart, being predisposed to its own control ("master of my fate, and captain of my soul") makes men tenaciously clutch the self-affirmation taught from many a pulpit. If you care to search the forum, you'll find that I have addressed, if not directly to you, each and every one of your objections (they are not new) as succinctly and clearly as I was able. To me, that record seems sufficient. I apologize, but I lack the time, energy, and desire to pursue this topic. I have to employ wisdom as to which enterprise warrants expending my limited resources. Nothing personal. If you would like to investigate it further, for your own purposes, going beyond the meager offerings in the SBF archives: The theological subject you are speaking of is addressed in a branch of theology known as soteriology. It is explicitly called "libertarian free will" or "decisional regeneration." With no cost, and little effort, you can find over two thousand years of discussion and judgment in the church, on the topic using these keyword combinations: Pelagianism/Augustinianism, Arminianism/Calvinism, Meritorious Works/Freely Credited Faith, Prevenient Grace/Irresistible Grace, Foreseen Faith/ Unconditional Election, Synergism/Monergism, Open Theism/Classical Theism, etc. Everywhere you'll find Scripture references, history, and rhetoric galore. I hope that these resources will be of benefit to you. As you deem best, exercise your free will to exert the intellectual sweat to study the subject, either to increase the sophistication of the arguments you use to bolster your current position, or to revise that position. You might even enjoy the process. Thank you for the discussion. In Him, Doc PS If you like A. W. Tozer, you might be interested in the 27th chapter of "The Knowledge of the Holy." He has some light treatment of this subject there. |
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2 | pleasestate your undestandingof verse | Prov 16:33 | keliy | 211591 | ||
Thank you Doc for your effort, may the Lord bless you for your time was well spent. As I stated in my post to you above, "....and as I am sure this has been debated many times before on this forum and throughout the ages, May I ask you now, to return to the original question at hand?" this makes me really wonder whether you actually read the posts that you reply to. So, when you say, "The affection that people have for their own self determinism, entrenches this presupposition so deeply that neither logic nor authority can hope to dislodge it" Do understand that this applies to yourself as closely as it does to anyone else? Sorry, but the 27th Chapter does not exist in my copy of Knowledge of the Holy by Tozer, c.1961 -It goes no further than chapter 23. In His Love, keliy we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. (1 Cor 8:1) |
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3 | pleasestate your undestandingof verse | Prov 16:33 | stjohn | 211593 | ||
Hi Keliy: Knowledge puffed up? I can assure you, Keliy, that the Knowledge that Doc so graciously takes the time to share (and humbly) with others, nether can nor has been exemplified by precious few that I've had the profound pleasure to know. (in my humble opinion) I do hope that you do indeed take the time though it may be at some great effort, for these things are difficult at best to truly understand, exert the sweat to explore this subject beyond the scope of this forum or what has become available to you through other sources. It's worth it. _____________________________ from post ID# 211583 Let's try something different? Quoting you, quoting Doc, with emphasis on the word 'OR' "Either God is in control of all things OR something else has power over God?" Then you wrote: "Can anyone rightly put God's attributes into such a tiny box?" Okay, now lets put the emphasis where it rightly belongs. Either God is in control of ALL things or something else has power over God. "All" things is not such a tiny box. Is it? Either He has power over All things or He is not Almighty God, but only, sorta mighty God and something or someone else has some of that power over God. Just my two cents Almighty God bless John :-) |
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