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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | srbaegon | 184543 | ||
Hello Jonp, Thank you for the references. I have learned something new. However one cannot state that these works were the source material for millenialism in the early church since Revelation states it explicitly and would be the predominant source. Before you go the route of a cultural argument, I will acknowledge the influence. One need only look at the similarities between Essences and Christians to find that like thoughts were prevalent. Some have mistakenly see Christianity as an Essene sect. This same incorrect assumption is being used here to assume the Jewish cultural basis of an explicit biblical statement. Steve |
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2 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | jonp | 184552 | ||
Hi Steve. Thank you for your courteous reply. What I actually said was that Baruch was the source from which Papias and Irenaeus quoted. If you will compare their quotations with Baruch I think you will agree. (I did not say that it was the source of Revelation 20). So we are left with Revelation 20 as the only New Testament source for possible teaching on the millennium, something which is quite remarkable if the doctrine is true. Clearly neither Jesus nor Paul thought it important enough to mention it. Perhaps we might learn a lesson from them? However I will try to give a brief resume of what I see to be the meaning of Revelation 20. In my view Revelation is split up into a number of visions each of which leads up to the second coming. Thus we have Revelation 6 which ends with His coming being implied in verse 17. We have Revelation 14 which ends with His coming in verses 14-20. We have Revelation 16 which ends with His implied coming in verses 19-21. We have 17-19 which ends with His coming in 19.11-21. And now chapter 20 which ends with His coming in verses 11-15, a depiction from another angle of what we find in Matthew 25.31-46. All are of course using metaphorical language. The reality will be beyond description. It will be such that it COULD NOT be described literally. So coming to Revelation 20 (in the short space permitted). Firstly Satan is bound. That event is described also by Jesus in Matthew 12.29; Mark 3.27; compare Luke 11.20-22. And this binding is for 'a thousand years' (i.e. a long time of unknown duration, compare 2 Peter 3.8). AFTER that he is loosed for a little while as described in 9.1-11; 12.12. Then we go back in time from the end of the 'thousand years' and see thrones set and those to whom judgment is committed. This is described by Jesus in Matthew 19.28; Luke 22.28-30. Along with the Apostles are all the martyred saints sharing in their triumph. They too all reign with Christ over the 'thousand years' that lie ahead. Along with them we have the company of all believers who have not worshipped the beast or accepted 'the mark of the beast'. These have taken part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is described in Ephesians 1.19-2.6; John 5.24-25; Romans 6.4, 11; Philippians 3.20). For all of us who are in Christ have been raised with Him and are seated with Him in heavenly places. We share with the heavenly saints in the glory of His rule (Hebrews 12.22-24). Compare Revelation 5.10. You will note that I am taking Scripture literally. We are delivered from the second death, and reign with Him. Then Satan will be released for his short period (verse 3; 9.1-11; 12.12) until Jesus' coming brings about his defeat. At that point the 'second resurrection' will take place (John 5.28-29; 1 Thessalonians 4.15-16; 1 Corinthians 15). Finally comes the judgment of the end times. You will note that all my interpretations are based on solid Scripture and that all the incidents described have previously been described in Scripture as happening before Christ's second coming. It really is in my view too much of a coincidence that Revelation 20 follows exactly the pattern which occurred before Jesus'coming, if it does not apply to that. With all best wishes. Jonp | ||||||
3 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | srbaegon | 184556 | ||
Hello Jonp, That Jesus and Paul did not mention it is highly inconclusive being an argument from silence. Jesus said there were many things the apostles needed to be taught, but they were not ready (John 16:12). You and I do not know why Paul did not mention it in what was recorded. Elementary exegesis tells me not to equate the use of the thousand years in 2 Peter 3:8 with that in Revelation 20. The former is making a statement of the eternality of God, so that time is inconsequential to him. Revelation 20 is a different matter. Your comparison of the gospels with Revelation is based on generalities. I would expect that. Your argument breaks down when comparing the details. Sorry, my friend, your interpretation simply does not stand the test. Steve |
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4 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | jonp | 184563 | ||
Hello Steve, I am quite happy for you to take up whatever position you consider agrees with the Scriptures, Indeed that is what I would expect of you. I am quite prepared to let each person judge for themslves by comparing the Scriptures. You asked me questions and I showed you the courtesy of replying to them. I have lived long enough not to try to get Christians to change their mind. In response to questions I have stated my case. I am then happy to leave it with God to reveal to people what He wills. But if you do not find the silence of both Jesus and Paul convincing I do. No modern teacher who believed in the Millennium would have been so silent about it. I have constantly stated, however, that I do not think a person's view about the supposed Millennium is important. It is a peripheral doctrine and not central to the Christian faith or to the evangelical position. If you find it helpful by all means hold on to it. For myself I found that discovering what I see as the truth about it made the Bible come alive to me in a new way. Best wishes Jonp | ||||||