Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | jonp | 184483 | ||
Hi Let me immediately make clear that I do believe in the literal second coming of Christ to the earth in accordance with 1 Thessalonians 4.13-18 (and all that Jesus taught on the subject). But no, I find that neither Jesus nor Paul taught a millennium, so I am in good and sound company :-))). On the other hand I do believe that the Book of Revelation is the inspired word of God. What I do not believe is that the pre-tribulationist position correctly interprets it. Pre-tribulationism is a comparatively new teaching which arose among the Plymouth Brethren in the 19th century, and was popularised by Dr Scofield (whom I admire even if I cannot accept all his teachings). Neither John Calvin nor Martin Luther nor George Whitefield nor John Wesley were pre-tribulationists. Millennialism was an intertestamental Jewish teaching which was never accepted by the wider Christian church. Thus I stand in the long line of saints who hold to the truth of the Gospel without getting caught up in fancy ideas. Possibly you are not aware of the fact that while in the US such teachings are widely influential, in the remainder of the Christian world they are very much secondary. And that is not because only Americans understand the Scriptures. Best wishes Jonp | ||||||
2 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | Brian#9 | 184522 | ||
Hello Jonp sir; I am a little confused. If there is no Millennial Age. What period of time is; Joel 2:21-27, Joel 3:18-21, Isaiah 35:1-10, Isaiah 2:2-4, Amos 9:9-15, Micah 4:17, Isaiah 11:4-10, Zephaniah 3:20, Habakkuk 2:14, Haggai 2:6-9, Zechariah 8:3-4, Zechariah 14:16-21, Jeremiah 31:27-34, Jeremiah 33:12-26, Ezekiel 36:33-38, Revelation 20:4-6? What period of time will the Shekinah Glory Return? (Ezekiel 43:1-7) What period of time will Christ sit on David's throne and reign over the house of Jacob? (Luke 1:30-33) What period of time will Israel be the Head of Nations? (Deuteronomy 28:13) What period of time will the Gentile Nations be submissive and blessed under Israel? (Zechariah 8:23, Matthew 25:32-34) If no Millennial Age where do they fit? In His Hand, Brian |
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3 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | jonp | 184531 | ||
Hi Brian, I can clearly only deal with your question quickly but the answer is simple. The prophecies cover three periods. Firstly the time when God brought Israel back to its land and gave them prosperity, secondly the period of the Kingly Rule of God established by Jesus over the new Israel of God (Galatians 6.16; John 15.1-6), and thirdly the period of the everlasting kingdom, given in language that the people at the time could understand. Thus Joel 2.21-27 comes BEFORE the pouring out of the Spirit which Peter applied to Pentecost in Acts 2.18. In Joel 2.20 we are told that 'Judah will be inhabited for ever, and Jerusalem to all generations'. That requires everlastingness. Isaiah 35.1-2 was fulfilled prior to the coming of Jesus while verses 3-9 are fulfilled in the coming of Jesus (compare Matthew 11.3-5), and verse 10 refers to the everlasting kingdom, the only place where everlasting joy could be obtained. Isaiah 2.2-4 was fulfilled in the coming of Christ and the sending out of the Gospel. It was describing how Jerusalem would be the place where God revealed His blessing, followed by the new Temple of God's people becoming the source of life to the world. Acts 15.16-18 demonstrates the fulfilment of Amos 9.9-12, while the remainder speaks of the everlasting kingdom in idealistic terms. Note again 'they will never again be plucked up out of the land'. That requires everlastingness, not just a millennium. Micah 4.17 is not in my Bible :-)) Isaiah 11.4-10 is again describing the everlasting kingdom (do you really think it could happen at the same time as blood offerings were being made in the Temple?). Compare Isaiah 65.25 which is specifically in the new heavens and the new earth (65.17). Zephaniah 3.20 was partially fulfilled when Israel was restored prior to the coming of Christ, verse 19 in the coming of Christ. Habakkuk 2.14 is in process now, and will receive its final fulfilment in the everlasting kingdom. Haggai 2.7-9 had a partial fulfilment in the Temple of Herod, and a final fulfilment in the new Temple of God composed of His people, followed by the Temple in Heaven. Zechariah 8.3-5 is pictured in a slightly different way in Revelation 21.22-27. Zechariah 14.16-21 is a picture in terms in which the people could understand of everlasting worship, stressing why it will be universal. Jeremiah 31.31-34 speaks of the new covenant made by Christ and fulfilled in the Kingly Rule of God. Jeremiah 33.12-26 cannot possibly refer to a period that will end for it promises 'there will NEVER lack a man to sit on the throne of Israel', while the covenant with David is so everlasting (compare Isaiah 55.3) that it cannot ever be broken. This requires an everlasting kingdom. Ezekiel 36.33-38 took place during the restoration period. Ezekiel 37.24-28 (why omitted?), 'David my servant will be prince for ever' and 'my sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore' again requires an everlasting kingdom. Revelation 20.4-6 refers to Christ's victory in the present age. I will later post evidence of this if you wish. Meanwhile you must be careful not to just ignore the significance of everlastingness. The answer to the remainder lies in the establishment of God's Kingly Rule in the church followed by the everlasting kingdom. Running out of space Best wishes Jonp | ||||||
4 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | Brian#9 | 184557 | ||
Hello JonP sir; Please define,"period of the Kingly Rule of God". When dose it end? Please define,"period of the everlasting kingdom". When dose it begin? The reason for this is that I will not misunderstand what you are saying due to present day culture.(your part of the world, as to my part of the world) You referred to "the new Israel of God", this I gather is the believers in Christ correct? (culture thing) The promises to the 'old Israel of God' are still in effect, correct? You are correct that Micah 4:17 is not in the Bible, but Micah 4:1-7 is . (sorry) You mentioned the 'never' in Jeremiah 33:17; why not the "never" in Joel 2:26,27? You asked, "why omitted" Ezekiel 37:24-28. All the verses I posted are ones that I had in my notes on Revelation 20:4-6. Sorry I missed these, they are added now. Revelation 20:4-6, What time period and why? Luke 1:33, What time period and why? Deuteronomy 28:13, What time period and why? Zechariah 8:23, What time period and why? Ezekiel 43:1-7, What time period and why? Thank you for your time,may the Lord bless you, Brian |
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5 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | jonp | 184562 | ||
Hello Brian. You have asked me to define the Kingly Rule of God. The Kingly Rule of God has in one sense been established in Heaven right from the beginning (see Psalm 22.28 - 'the Kingly Rule is of the LORD, and He rules over the nations'. See also Psalm 103.19). God's original aim was to establish His Kingly Rule over Israel (Deuteromy 33.5) but this aim was thwarted by their rebellion (1 Samuel 8.7). They rejected His Kingship. The prophets therefore began to look for it to be established in the future. Thus when John the Baptist came he informed Israel that the Kingly Rule of God was at hand. Now they were again to be given the opportunity of coming under His Kingly Rule. Jesus emphasised that by casting out evil spirits He had demonstrated that the Kingly Rule of God had come upon them (Matthew 12.28). Thus He could say, 'the Kingly Rule of God is among you' (Luke 17.21). All who would could come and respond to Him and as a result they would come under the Kingly Rule of God. Indeed tax collectors and sinners were already flocking into it (Matthew 21.31). But no one could 'see' it unless they were 'born from above' (John 3.3). So in order to enter into it men had to be born from above by The Spirit of God (John 3.5-6). It was being established through the preaching of the word (Matthew 13). This establishment of God's Kingly Rule as something open to all who would respond to Jesus is common in the New Testament (compare Acts 28.21; Romans 14.17). But there is also a future aspect to the Kingly Rule of God, which again is constantly emphasised, and that is the everlasting Kingly Rule of God in Heaven (Matthew 5.10; 7.21; 8.11-12 and often). Many references could in fact refer to both. This is not surprising for God is the King and all those who have submitted to His rule by believing in Jesus and accepting Him as their Lord will come under His rule both in this world and the next. As a result of the failure of many Jews to respond to Him Jesus declared that 'The Kingly Rule of God will be taken away from you, and given to a nation producing its fruits' (Matthew 21.43). For Jesus had come as the true Vine, the representative of the true Israel (John 15.1; Matthew 2.15). All who were united with Him by being fruitful branches of the vine would become part of the new Israel. The remainder were cast off. For He had come to found His new 'congregation' (of Israel) on the rock of His Messiahship (Matthew 16.18). This new Israel was formed first of the Apostles and their fellow disciples and then grew rapidly after Pentecost as many Jews were 'added to the congregation' (the 'congregation' (ekklesia) was a word used to describe Israel in the Old Testament). Israel had always accepted Gentiles into the covenant when they sought the God of Israel (as long as they would be circumcised), and soon the Apostles were guided to allow Gentiles to enter the congregation. That caused a dispute as to whether they needed to be circumcised. This demonstrates that they all saw these Gentiles as becoming a part of Israel as it was formulated from the beginning. The decision made was that it was unnecessary because they were united with Christ and had therefore already been circumcised in the circumcision of Christ (Colossians 2.11). Paul makes clear in Romans 11.17-28 that these Gentiles have been grafted into the olive tree of the covenant, while the Jews who have not believed in Jesus have been cast off and are therefore no longer a part of the covenant. Israel is now made up of both Jews and Gentiles who have become a part of the household of God (Ephesians 2.13-22) through faith in Jesus. So the new Israel, which is the genuine Israel united with Christ as the true Vine (as opposed to the false vine of the old Israel), have replaced those who saw themselves as the old Israel. The new 'nation' has replaced the old. All the promises therefore now apply to the new Israel, because they are the true Israel, and it is they who are the true sons of Abraham (Galatians 3.28-29). This is the true Israel, the Israel of God (Galatians 6.16). I feel that is sufficient for this post so I will deal with the remainder of your question in another posting. Best wishes Jonp. |
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6 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | stjohn | 184565 | ||
Good grief!! Lets Keep it simple shale we. The word of God is not that complicated. when Jesus rejected Israel It was temporary. He then began to focus on building His Church. Which He is still doing today by the way. When He takes His Church Out of the world, via the rapture, He will then refocus on Israel during the Great Tribulation Represented by the 144,000 that are sealed to go through it. At that time He will set up His 1,000 year rain and after that comes eternity with God and all His children. Very simple really, and it does not take a so called scholar to drag what "he" thinks is the truth out of what God is saying. If you don't understand it, that is, why God is doing it that way, I don't know, It's His plan, He said it, not me. If you have a problem take it to God. God bless all. Peace stj |
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7 | The fruit and leaves of the tree of life | Gen 2:9 | jonp | 184591 | ||
Hi stj The one problem I have with your outline is that you are not doing what Jesus did, focus on His church and what He is doing today. Most of what you have described focuses on what you think will happen after the rapture, all of which will not affect us, and is based on one or two very doubtfully interpreted Scriptures (Daniel 9; Revelation 20). Your idea of the Great Tribulation is not mentioned in the Bible (you read your interpretation into it), who the 144,000 are is very much disputed (James calls the whole church the twelve tribes of Israel - James 1.1), and no reign of Christ ON earth is mentioned even in Revelation 20. So your summary is very lopsided. The whole of the Old and New Testament is summarily dealt with, and you concentrate on one or two controversial ideas. By all means hold on to them if they help you but do also recognise that neither Jesus, not Paul and Peter, saw them as important enough to mention. Perhaps you might do well to follow their example rather than that of Dr Scofield. Best wishes Jonp | ||||||