Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Who was the one to be sacrificed? | Gen 22:12 | mistknight | 36315 | ||
Could you clarify that for me please? And do look at the original question, my arguments, Morant61's reply, and the reply I just finished typing right now back to him. Thanx | ||||||
2 | Who was the one to be sacrificed? | Gen 22:12 | Emmaus | 36354 | ||
Mist, I don't know that I have much to add to your conversation other than what I have already posted. It is apparent that the technical "first born" with certain inheritance rights can lose them to another son as in the case of Esaau selling his bithright to Jacob for a mess of pottage and later Jacob tricking Isaac into giving him the blessing. Jacob's name meaning supplanter. or Abel's receiving the blessing of God being pleased with his sacrifice and rejecting Cain's or Reuben being supplanted in his father's favor by Joseph the late born child of his first love Rachel. God is not bound by the machinations of men who think they know better how to accomplish His ends. He blesses whom He will and even uses the headstrong when they think they are making things happen in their own way. I do have a book recommendation for you. If you do not already have it or have not read it, I recommend, Answering Islam by Norman L Geisler and Abdul Saleeb from Baker Books. You can probably get it through Amazon on the web or order it through a bookstore. I also recommend this link http://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT which is a chapter from a book by Hilaire Belloc titled The Great Heresies. This particular chapter is title The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed. It is more an historical book from the Catholic Christian European perspective. It was written in the 1930s when all Islam was prostrate at the feet of colonial powers, but was prophetic in predicting that Islam would rise again. It does touch on some theology but is mostly history and very readable. It is about 40 pages if printed out. Emmaus |
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3 | Who was the one to be sacrificed? | Gen 22:12 | mistknight | 36372 | ||
I had to read only the first few pages. But I will openly attack something so weakly woven. First of all, the Koran itself refuted the claim that this is taken from Jewdism or Christianity. "and they say, this(The Koran) is dictated to him day and night, the tongue of the one you say of (a scribe) is foreign, and this is in the most fluent Arabic" I'm sure you know of the flaws of translation. Do you think a work translated from any other language to Arabic could possibly dare to hold this challenge? "All you humans and Jinns, if you are in doubt of that which we have sent to our servant then come up with only one chapter like the ones inside it and call whoever you wish for support if you tell the truth. But if you do not, and surly you cannot, then fear a fire whose fuel is men and stones prepared for the disbelievers" Do know that the smallest chapter in the Koran was only one line long! One line bore all Arabs helpless to imitate. Muhammad was called Sorcerrer, bewitched, crazy. Do you think these titles are reasonable just because of a "text"?Even an Arab Christian would hold witness that it's "not normal". Again, even in western sources we can see that Muhammad was illiterate. Do you think an illiterate person can refer back to Hebrew or any other language? That's quite unlikely. Last, the Koran also contradicts Catholism. We read "They are disbelievers those who say that God is the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, when Jesus said: Children of Israel, worship God my lord and your lord, for whoever rejects this, then He has forbidden paradise on him". I tell you of these things because if you said this to a Muslim or a scholar in Islam he'd really think you're ignorant. That's why I thought you should know them so you won't fall into slips again. Mist |
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4 | Who was the one to be sacrificed? | Gen 22:12 | Emmaus | 36379 | ||
Mist, I was not aware I was addressing myself or the text to a Muslim unless you are one. I also made plain the orientation of the book. Your judgment seems rather hasty after only two pages. I also made plain this more a historical persepective than theological. But you may have other more appealing Christian responses to or criitiques of Islam to pursue. I would point out though that memory not translation was the primary mode of transmission among most people who were illierate at that time. And most Christians in the area spoke Arabic or Aramaic and churches had manuscript bibles in those language. Mohammed obviously learned much and remembered much both Christian and Jewish in his business travels. His illiteracy was neither unusual for the time nor a hindrance to his success in business and society as you obviously know. You seem to be speaking from the position of accepting the Koran as divine revelation rather than taking the objective stand that you previously indicated. I think I may have offended you because you are a believer in Islam. I know Tim earlier sensed the same possibility. You have not stated your personal belief, but you do know ours. I will leave you and Tim to continue the conversation. Emmaus |
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5 | Who was the one to be sacrificed? | Gen 22:12 | mistknight | 36417 | ||
I have told you before that I persue truth. When I see something illogical in Muslim's faith I clearly say it out loud. When they give me arguments against Christianity and I refer to you then reply to them, they tell me that this is the stance of a Christian, since none knows my personal beliefs. And they simply despise it(and me) for that matter. When I see something historically wrong on behalf of Christians I say it clear cut, again, they tell me that this is the attitude of a Muslim. They don't like me, but I hate no one. I don't seek any side's contentment for me. I simply seek the truth. If that truth offends Christians or Muslims, it nonetheless is the unchangable truth. It seems you might have overlooked that I might be someone who's searching for a faith. That would require me to question both sides, would it not? As for Christians, we know quite well that Muhammad never encountered any at the time before Hijra (before going to Madina). Jews were concentrated in Madina also. According to Muslim references (which are highly doubtful), Jews and Christians were there for the sole purpose of awaiting someone they knew would be born at that time, and around these places. Again, if we look at the text in the Koran, we can clearly see that he didn't wait until after Hijra for his revelation to start. Moreover, hundreds of verses in the Koran deal not only with belief, but with the life and span of his stay and of Arab's history. Was that also recorded in Jewish teachings? Especially that they wouldn't care more or less for the pagan Arabs? What about the names of places? What about the stories associated with prophets which are nowhere to be found in the bible? If we accept what you said, we might just be questioning what reached us from the bible, and from what was usually concidered then as bible. Not convinced? Let's not forget that Jews in particular hold the belief that Jewdism is their religion only, and that they are exalted above gentiles. It would be highly questionable that one of them would go out of his way to teach a gentile his most holliest teachings when he knows that it would not even give salvation to him (assuming he could find a Jew in Mecca). Let's not forget also that Jews were from the few who refused the new religion, they couldn't have then seen it very much like their own religions would they? What does all this tell you? Logic my friend. When I translate a verse of the Koran and it says the Koran is divine revelation, or offends trinity. Then can you honestly say that this is what I I'm saying? Not what the verses honestly say when translated? Which I use only to show you what a Muslim would say to what he would concider very weak arguments. If I choose to take out such parts which offend the trinity or say that the Koran is divine, then I don't think the text can still be called part of the Koran?Perhaps the Koran revised and edited by a Christian. If I don't even state the verses, then I would be called ignorant for not knowing anything about the faith and it's replies to the attacks at hand. Would that be an "objective" reply to you? Logic my friend. Mist |
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6 | Who was the one to be sacrificed? | Gen 22:12 | 10ECPreacher | 36453 | ||
Greetings, Mist. I submit the following scriptures for your consideration in your pursuit of truth. "So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." [John 8:31-32 NASB] 'Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."' [John 14:6 NASB] 'Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."' [John 18:37 NASB] "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." [1 John 4:1-6 NASB] "For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself." [Phil. 3:18-21 NASB] "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine [is disloyal to what Jesus Christ taught], do not receive him [do not accept him, do not welcome or admit him] into [your] house or bid him Godspeed or give him any encouragement. For he who wishes him success [who encourages him, wishing him Godspeed] is a partaker in his evil doings." [2 John 1:10-11 Amplified] I am convinced that any message, gospel or doctrine that does not present Jesus Christ-- crucified, resurrected, glorified--is an insult to the Cross, and ultimately insulting to all who believe in Christ. I would strongly urge all who are sincerely seeking truth to go to the Cross of Jesus Christ. You will need look no further. Kind regards, Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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