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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Sovereignty of God | Ps 103:19 | kalos | 124763 | ||
T or F? "God is a gentleman. He won't tamper with your free will." 'Sloppy Slogans' 'There's nothing wrong with catchy ways of expressing a conclusion based on careful consideration. In fact, Jesus was a master at using short, pithy statements (known as aphorisms) to drive a point home. Sloganeering in the hands of the unskilled, though, tends to be a sloppy business. The kernel of truth is lost beneath a pile of misleading chaff. 'Many slogans are not answers, but clever dismissals. No careful work has been done to justify the verdict. Let me explain. 'One truism I've heard regarding the problem of God's sovereignty versus man's freedom goes something like this: "God is a gentleman. He won't tamper with your free will." The statement has a ring of truth to it, and as a slogan it has populist appeal. Yet, more often than not, the statement is like a roof hanging in mid-air; the more demanding foundational work needed to support it simply has not been done. 'For example, this maxim is vulnerable to a couple of simple observations. First, the Scripture doesn't make this particular claim about human freedom. It doesn't even imply that God is a gentleman who won't interfere with our lives. To the contrary, there are a number of biblical examples that indicate just the opposite. 'Take Paul on the road to Damascus, for instance. He was in total rebellion against God. He dragged Christian men, women, and children into prison and even presided over executions. Paul was, in his human will, an enemy to the cross of Christ. So God knocked him off his horse on the Damascus Road, blinded him, then spoke to him like thunder from the sky (Acts 9:3-7). Was God tampering? It looks like it. 'Consider poor Nebuchadnezzar. God had him chewing grass with the cows in the fields of Babylon for three years until he finally looked heavenward, came to his senses, and gave God the glory (Daniel 4:28-37). Was there any divine pressure here? Seems like it to me.' ____________________ Faith and Philosophy by Gregory Koukl. To read more go to: (www.str.org) |
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2 | The Sovereignty of God | Ps 103:19 | tgc | 124774 | ||
kalos, I reallt thought you where above cheap personal shots like the one you made in your last post however if that is your way so be it. First of all the fact that God is a perfect gentelman can be backed with scripture. Consider for a moment the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve had a choice and choose to disobey according to the logic in your arguement this was planned and carried out by God and they had nothing to do with it. I am sure you can see the flaw in this reason. When God came into the Garden He called out to Adam He did not go straight ot him He waited for Adam to come to Him again a choose Adam made. Concerning Paul did God interven in his life YES Did God force him to carry out the ministry that became Paul's life no. Paul chose to submit his will to that of God's. The same arguement can be made with the calling of each of the aposles, they all had a choice. As to Nebuchadnezzar yes God intervened in his life but He did not force salvation on him that would have been his choice. I relize you come from a calvenist standpoint which smacks of legalism check out Calvin's list of dos and don'ts sometime. Remember not everyone is a tulip picker some of us many of us except the clear teaching of scripture as to the freewill choice of men in connection to God. It should also be noted that freewill in no way takes away from God's sovereignty as a matter of fact I think it highlights it. But of course this comes from one you see as being unskilled and sloppy. In The Love Of Christ, tgc | ||||||
3 | The Sovereignty of God | Ps 103:19 | kalos | 124794 | ||
'Sloppy Slogans' continued 'One truism I've heard regarding the problem of God's sovereignty versus man's freedom goes something like this: "God is a gentleman. He won't tamper with your free will." The statement has a ring of truth to it, and as a slogan it has populist appeal. Yet, more often than not, the statement is like a roof hanging in mid-air; the more demanding foundational work needed to support it simply has not been done. 'For example, this maxim is vulnerable to a couple of simple observations. First, the Scripture doesn't make this particular claim about human freedom. It doesn't even imply that God is a gentleman who won't interfere with our lives. To the contrary, there are a number of biblical examples that indicate just the opposite. (...) 'Prayer and Free Will 'Second, the notion that God doesn't tamper with our free will presents problems in the area of prayer. For example, what exactly are we asking for when we pray for someone's salvation? Aren't our very words, "God, change this person"? Aren't we asking God to intervene by influencing a person's will in order to elicit a response of faith? It seems difficult to argue that God doesn't tamper with free will and then pray this prayer. 'The problem doesn't just present itself when praying for someone's salvation, though. It includes prayer for anything involving human agency. 'God answers prayer in two ways. He can respond directly, like he did when Peter was in jail and an angel released him. Since there was no human involvement, no one's will was violated. The same is true when Jesus multiplied the loaves and fishes or raised Lazarus from the dead. 'It seems, however, that most of our requests entail God's mediate action, in which the answer involves the agency of another person. Characteristically, we're not rescued by angels. Usually, God doesn't multiply food or raise the dead in direct, immediate response to our prayers. Instead, the garden variety of prayer sets the will of God against the will of man. 'Our prayers for a new job involve a human decision to hire. Our requests for the protection of the unborn speak to intentions of legislators and judges. Our petitions for good grades relate, in part, to the benevolence of a professor. In fact, with many prayer requests, the contrary will of a person is the precise issue of concern. Most prayers appeal to God to prevail upon other human wills. In effect we're praying, "God, use Your will and Your power to overcome the power and will of others." 'Did God Do It? 'I have a friend who was on her way to India with Youth With a Mission when she was diverted to Thailand because of an air-traffic controller's strike. Upon her arrival, she discovered that the YWAM team there had been praying for more helpers. They hailed her rerouting as a wonderful answer to their prayers. 'Consider this, though. Labor strikes happen when individuals with grievances agree together not to go to work. If a strike is the result of human choices, in what sense did God answer the missionaries' prayers? It seems that without the direct agency of God on the wills of men, apparent answers to prayer are mere accidents. 'This illustration points to an even larger issue: Does God have a plan? Is His plan something He merely desires, or is it something He decides will happen? Does God guarantee the outcome of His desires, at least in some cases? 'If God cannot determine people's actions in some way, how is it possible for Him to have a plan? Clearly, God does have a plan. Therefore, it follows that our understanding of human freedom is not accurately expressed by the slogan, "God won't tamper with free will." 'However we resolve this issue, we must give fair consideration to the fact that God does seem to tamper with the wills of men. Sometimes He does so aggressively, even in ways (like causing air-traffic controller strikes) that seriously inconvenience a lot of other people. If He didn't, history would simply be the chaotic record of human impulse instead of the grand unfolding of God's design. 'Beliefs Worth Having '...Ad hoc assessments and theological slogans aren't adequate. It's easy to state a belief. It's much more difficult to build an argument that will weather rigorous scrutiny. 'That's the only way to have a belief worth holding, though.' ____________________ Faith and Philosophy by Gregory Koukl. To read more go to: (www.str.org) |
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4 | The Sovereignty of God | Ps 103:19 | Emmaus | 124801 | ||
Kalos, An interesting thread and important questions. Of course it is God's grace that actually frees the will so that it can do the good. It is God's light that shines in the darkness so that we can see our way and God's way. And yes God does sometimes give some of us, maybe all of us a kick in the pants to move us in the right direction. But it seems that for some mules, even a 2 x 4 to the head does not get their attention. Your discussion of platitudes and cliches brings to mind two books: Platitudes Undone, by G.K. Chesterton http://www.mycatholicstore.com/christtheking/platun.html and Half-Truths: What's Right (And What's Wrong) With the Cliches You and I Live by by Montague Brown http://www.leafletmissal.org/catalog/half_truths_2673228.htm Emmaus |
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