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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Pragmatism is of the World | Job 21:15 | Ray | 129690 | ||
Hi Hiskid84, I think that it would be good to look at the Greek for John 6:15. The thing that we should notice is that the people wanted to take Him by force (seize Him, Strong's #726) and make (Strong's #4160) Him king. Make means "to do" something, to accomplish a thing. So the idea isn't that He was forced to be king, but rather, they desired to seize Him so that they could see that He would be crowned king. [Your husband's Charlemagne story has application here.] A Scripture that we can look at also is John 18:37. The NKJ and the NASB have in italics (because it is not in the Greek) the quote of Jesus, "You say correctly [rightly, NKJ] that Iam a king." Jesus went on and said that that was the reason that He was born. Jesus had to be a king in order to be the King of kings. He had to enlighten all men in order to be the Light of the world. He had come in the likeness of men in order to be the second Adam (a Man). He had to be a savior in order to be the Savior, a rock (fortress, stronghold) in order to be the Rock, etc. etc. And there is no other. So I do not want you or anyone to make Him king of your life. I want us to make Him King of kings, and Lord of lords. That is accomplished by accepting the things, the truths, of God's word; even knowing the Truth. John 18:37, 38 would be interesting to study for seeking the Truth. From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Pragmatism is of the World | Job 21:15 | Hiskid84 | 129732 | ||
Hello, Ray. Thank you very much for taking time to respond to my post and for giving me some new things to think about. :) After I posted to you yesterday, I went back and reread your post a couple of times. I realized that I was missing (what I believe was) the key point that you were trying to make and knew that it had to do with the upper and lower case use of the letter "k" in the word king. So first of all, I will confess to you (and everyone else) that I realize I am hypersensitive towards anything that hints at a "works" gospel. I won't apologize for that but I will apologize if it causes me to misinterpret the main idea someone is wanting to express (as in the case yesterday). The only way I can see to deal with this "problem" I'm having is to acknowledge the main idea, derive any benefit from it (the opportunity to learn), and ask about the statements that I believe are in opposition to what the Bible teaches. With those things in mind, I address the latest post by you (directed to me: 129690). I want to preface anything I write henceforth by saying that even if a statement is within the context of the main idea (which, of course, it would be), if, on its own, it is something I believe to be false I will question it. Okay, now to the heart of this post: I am very sincere in giving thanks to you for giving me some things to "chew on". After looking at the verses in John 18 (37-38) and seeing Jesus acknowledging He is "a king" I am now very curious as to His statement. Though it may be painfully obvious to some, I am trying to understand how He was/is a king in the lower case sense of the word. To say He is THE King (King over all, uppercase K) is easy. His Word makes that plain. And yet, I am struggling with the concept of Him being a king in the earthly sense of the word (a male sovereign over a group of people). I would be very interested in anything you (or others) would like to share on the subject. Though I have a little bit of difficulty getting it totally straight in my mind, I can understand the concept of Him being the Light (though I'm not sure if I would equate "enlighten all men" with "gives light to every man"...I'll have to get back to you on that). And I can easily see that Jesus was indeed a man as well as the second Adam. However, would you please explain (if time permits) how He was a savior, lower case, if the definition of that word is, "A person who rescues another from harm, danger, or loss." Again, it is simple to see Him as Savior, upper case form. I'm also having the same difficulty with the word, "rock". In what way was He a "fortress, stronghold" in the earthly sense of the word? To help you understand my perspective, I am looking at all these things from the point of them equating to His earthly ministry. How else can we apply any lower case word to Him except to apply it to His humanity (as opposed to His diety)? Help, please! My brain is hurting! With all of that addressed I will now move on to my "nit-picking" for today. Your statement was: "So I do not want you or anyone to make Him king of your life. I want us to make Him King of kings, and Lord of lords. That is accomplished by accepting the things, the truths, of God's word; even knowing the Truth." Please help me to understand how we can possibly make Christ anything. If I fail to accept the truths of God's Word, even "knowing the Truth", is He no longer King of kings? Or are you meaning that we are to acknowledge Him for who He is? Part of my confusion is in the phrase, "I want us to MAKE Him King of kings..." Your definition above of "make" is, " "to do" something, to accomplish a thing." Ray, please believe me when I say it is not my intention to cause dissension. I truly want to understand your position. I hope you can help me. In Him, Karen |
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3 | Pragmatism is of the World | Job 21:15 | following him | 129740 | ||
Hello Karen; I would like to say something about this "King"/"king" issue. Jesus was placed before Pilot on trial in which the Jews wanted Jesus to receive the death penalty. Their case however was going very badly because Pilot could find no reason for His trial let alone His execution. Remember the reason Jesus came in the first place was to die on the cross for the sins of man. And at this point Pilot was trying to keep Him from that cross. And the Jews could give no reason for Jesus to be put to death. So Jesus provides Pilot with a reason. He does not claim to be THE King. He claims to be a king. The king of the Jews (an earthly king) and as such set Himself up to be a threat to Rome. Even with this Pilot tried to get Him off until the Jews threatened him by saying that if Pilot let Him go Pilot was no friend of cesear. Pilot realy had no choice but to condemn Jesus if Jesus was realy a king. Jesus it seems had to force Pilot to send Him to the cross to die for the sins of man. Just something to think about. Blessing to you Aaron |
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4 | Pragmatism is of the World | Job 21:15 | Hiskid84 | 129751 | ||
Aaron, Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. :) They did help bring some things into perspective for me. I was wondering if you could answer a question for me (since it appears that I cannot post without asking at least one). Knowing that God cannot lie, Jesus must have been (or still is?) truly the king of the Jews (according to your statements above). You wrote that He did not claim to be "THE King" but "a king" the "king of the Jews (an earthly king)". Could you define His (earthly) kingship over the Jews if you have time? Thank you so much for your help! In Him, Karen |
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5 | Pragmatism is of the World | Job 21:15 | following him | 130008 | ||
Hello Karen; Forgive me for taking so long in getting back to you about the king issue concerning Jesus. You are very correct in that God cannot lie. Jesus was in fact the king of the Jews. The Jews were waiting for their Messiah to come for a long time thinking that at His coming He would rule from the throne of David as their king defeating their evil oppressors. This was all according to interpretation of OT prophesies. However, the prophecies referring to the messiah reigning as their king were not referring to His first coming but His second. His first coming was to redeem man from sin by His death on the cross. This is why the Jews missed it. They were looking for Him to do something that was not going to happen at that time. Was He still the king of the Jews? Yes. In Matt 1, the genealogy shows His ancestry as going back directly to David. He was David’s heir and as such had a right to sit on David’s throne and rule Israel. He was in fact the real king of the Jews but it was not His purpose to Rule at that time. You can see throughout the gospels He deliberately avoids being set up as king. And the only time He admits to being the king of the Jews is during His trials; once before the high priest who used His testimony as being the Messiah for a charge of blasphemy against Him when the testimony of the false witnesses were falling apart, and second before Pilot who would be obligated by Rome to eliminate the threat of a king that could possible cause the Jewish people to revolt against Roman authority. I hope I answered your question if not let me know. Blessing to you Aaron |
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