Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | Emmaus | 115393 | ||
ischus, I don't think you make much of a case. The whole history of the OT is strewn with cases of the Israelties falling away from faith because of falling in with pagan women and being influenced by their religions. Solomon, that paragon of wisdom being a prime example. The blame should squarely be laid at the feet of the offending Israelites and not the women they married as Ezra makes clear when they confess their sin, not the sin of the women they married. And the passage where you says Ezra adds to the number of foreign nations listed in Deuternomy, is enclosed in brackets in my bible, indicating that it is likely a scribal gloss and not part of the original text. I did not pass over you posts lightly. I just find them unconvincing. The Talmud considers Ezra a second Moses. And one must also take into account the prophets of that time mentioned in Exra 5:1. Why did not God use them to straighten out Ezra if he was in the wrong? Perhaps the answer is in Ezra 7:6? I see no indication that the foreign wives were converts to the faith and the context of Ezra-Nehemiah would indicate they were not. I am sorry you saw no relevance to the Samaritan issue. Emmaus |
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2 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115399 | ||
One more thing......... Could you give some examples of: "The whole history of the OT is strewn with cases of the Israelties falling away from faith because of falling in with pagan women and being influenced by their religions." besides the lone reference to Solomon? |
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3 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | EdB | 115457 | ||
Ischus Let me make this perfectly clear the prohibition against marrying a differnt nationality had nothing to do with race or ethnicity but had everything to do with religion. Here is a list of prohibitions against marrying from a different religions and also some verses showing the tragic results when men disobeyed. By the way the Nehemiah verses confirms that Ezra was definitely talking as God's servant. Genesis 24:3 Genesis 24:37 Genesis 28:1 Genesis 34:9 Genesis 34:14 Genesis 38:2 Genesis 46:10 Exodus 6:15 Exodus 34:16 Leviticus 24:10 Deuteronomy 7:3 Joshua 23:12 Judges 3:6 Judges 14:3 1 Kings 3:1 1 Kings 11:2 1 Kings 16:31 2 Chronicles 8:11 Ezra 9:2 Ezra 9:12 Ezra 10:14 Ezra 10:44 Nehemiah 10:30 Nehemiah 13:23 Nehemiah 13:25 EdB |
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4 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115537 | ||
EdB and Emmaus, I agree that God does not want people to practice the worship of foreign gods, but you need to look at to things here: First, God is not against marrying who are polytheistic- look at Solomon, David, Moses, Jacob, and others. The sins of Solomon had nothing to do with his marriage, but with his falling away from God instead of showing God to his wives. Second, The passages that you give in Nehemiah are descriptive of the people, not prescriptive Words of God. This is the case for many of the other verses as well. When you look at narritive material, you need to take into account who is speaking, God or man. |
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5 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | EdB | 115561 | ||
ischus Either the Bible is the inspired word of God or it is not. I believe it is the inspired word. I also God commissioned men like Ezra and Nehemiah to accurately record what He inspired. Ezra and Nehemiah are telling the men of Israel they violated God's law and married pagans. Exodus 34:15-16 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, [16] and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods. Marriage is covenant and you see in this passage God strictly forbids any covenant. Giving the reason that once they do they will start messing with pagan gods. It is not real hard to see. I gave you a lot of examples of what happened when the children of Israel disobeyed. I also gave you more passages where God forbids ANY covenant between Jew and Pagan. The evidence is overwhelming and way to conclusive for you to try to explain it away. If you want to believe differently fine but don’t insult our intelligence or the word of God by trying to convince us you right. EdB |
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6 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115564 | ||
EdB, ---"Either the Bible is the inspired word of God or it is not. I believe it is the inspired word." ***Amen, it is!!! What you fail to distinguish between is the "inspiration" of God and the "revelation" of God. All of scripture is inspired by God, yes, but not all is His revelation. The bible is full of texts that are not "thus says the Lord" texts. Ezra 9 is one of them. God inspired this to be in the bible exactly because Ezra's words were not his revelation. It was to teach this exact lesson of taking scripture out of context to make it say what you want it to, just like everyone is doing here. ---"Marriage is covenant and you see in this passage God strictly forbids any covenant. Giving the reason that once they do they will start messing with pagan gods. It is not real hard to see." ***What god did Jacob's wives worship? What god did David's wives worship? What god did Solomon's wives worship? Did God have a problem with these marriages? What nationality were the wives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob's sons, Moses, David, Solomon....? Did God have a problem with these marriages? The answer is no. What he has a problem with is worshiping other gods, not believing in them. ***What is the first of the ten commandments? "Have no other gods before me." Why not say 'don't believe in other gods,' or 'don't worship other gods,' or 'don't associate with people who believe in other gods?' BECAUSE HE WAS FINE WITH THEM JUST HAVING HIM FIRST. HE DIDN'T EXPECT MONOTHEISM. HE DIDN'T LIKE IT, BUT HE DIDN'T EXPECT EVERYONE TO STOP BELIEVING IN OTHER GODS. HE KNEW THEY WOULD MESS UP; HE JUST WANTED THEM TO KEEP HIM FIRST. SOLOMON FAILED TO DO THIS. MANY PEOPLE DID NOT FAIL TO KEEP GOD FIRST. DO WE PUT OTHER THINGS BEFORE GOD???? YES. DOES GOD WANT THIS???? NO. BUT WHEN IT HAPPENS, HE WANTS US TO REFOCUS AND PUT HIM FIRST AGAIN. ---"If you want to believe differently fine but don’t insult our intelligence or the word of God by trying to convince us you right." ***Thank you for this comment. I just can't support something like divorce or racism, both of which clearly insult the word and nature of God. ischus |
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7 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | EdB | 115573 | ||
Ischus First let me apologize for my shortness. I never meant to be so dogmatic appearing. However I have stated over and over it was not a matter of racism. You quote some exceptions and you also ignore some that prove you wrong. Solomon married pagans and they caused him to sin against God by building altars to their Gods. Abraham was married before God established him as the patriarch. Isaiah didn’t have much a choice since Abraham his father was the establishing patriarch. Nor did Jacob. However God had them marry women of their own kind so they would know the paganism they faced. Moses either was going to marry a pagan or remain single all the rest of the Jews were in Egypt and His life wasn’t worth much there. You mentioned David but did David marry a pagan it is late and I’m not sure it is mentioned in the Bible. God established the law and Ezra upheld it, the Bible does not say one way or another whether God was pleased with what he ordered but the fact remains he was God’s servant and that is what he did. We can speculate the rest of our life if that is what God sanctioned or not the fact is know that is what took place and God said nothing to correct it. EdB |
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8 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115577 | ||
EdB, No offense taken, and I make the same apology for any rudeness on my part. God did give David all of Saul's wives, who were mostly pagan. Anyway, I think we know where each other stands here, and I respect everything you have said, and I will not press this issue any longer. Thank you for your patience and willingness to discuss. Praise God for his grace in every way! ischus |
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