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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185783 | ||
Dear Mark, You asked, "...how do we separate his salvation from his regeneration?" It is clear from your post that you have your terms confused. Before I help you, let me point out that salvation and regeneration have the same definition in the Reformed camp, as they do in the Arminian camp as taught in your church. Regeneration is a categorical component of salvation. Regeneration is not synonymous with salvation. Scripture speaks of it as a component of the full blessing that is achieved in God's work of redemption. Those components -- or individual blessings -- are part of a "package deal." The Scripture frequently discusses them in a distinct fashion to help us doctrinally understand what God has done. However, experientially, these components aren't necessarily distinct. When a person is saved, he is gifted "the whole enchilada." A saved person is regenerate, justified, adopted, sanctified, etc. Consequently, you won't find a saved person who isn't adopted; or one who is adopted, but still needs justification; or yet another who is justified, but lacks regeneration. Therefore, you need to understand clearly that the ordo salutis is a logical order, not necessarily a chronological order. Regeneration occurs at salvation, right along with justification, instantaneously, etc. Dr. John Frame explained it well: "We should be flexible as to what goes into the ordo and what does not. The Bible does not use the phrase ordo salutis any more than it speaks of an order of the decrees. And Scripture does not include anywhere a list of all the events theologians typically include under that label. Myself, I think that the ordo is mainly a pedagogical devise. As you go through the various items on the lost, there is no consistent principle of ordering." Now note the following very carefully: "Some items precede other items because the first comes earlier in time, and the other later. This is the case with effectual calling and glorification. Other items on the lost precede others because one is the cause, the other an effect, as with regeneration and faith. Still others come before others not because of temporal priority or causal priority but because of what theologians call instrumental priority, as in the relation of faith to justification. And still other pairs of events are simply concurrent or simultaneous blessings, like justification and adoption. So, the 'order' means different things: sometimes cause and effect, sometimes earlier and later, sometimes instrument and object, sometimes mere concurrence." In Him, Doc |
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2 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185786 | ||
Hello Doc, This one sentence has helped me very much. you wrote. "I think that the ordo is mainly a pedagogical devise." We all have different needs, according to our particular position that life circumstances has dealt to us. I have had a difficult time convincing others that I was saved before I knew that it was Jesus doing the saving. the Holly Spirit led me to Jesus. different "ordo salutis" Thanks Doc! God Bless. John |
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