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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185419 | ||
Hi, stjohn! I have no tactic save to expose the truth of the Bible, in the hopes that His Spirit will illumine it for those redeemed by the Son, to the glory of God. The only embarrassment I worry about is my own before the Lord God Almighty (Hebrews 13:17). Winning or losing a debate doesn't matter one single jot. What matters is our complete submission to the Word. You wrote, "I don't believe election is sound doctrine. By the way." (sic) I do not understand. Are you saying that you don't believe in the doctrine of the effectual calling of the saints (a matter of presuppositional hermeneutics). Or are you saying that you don't believe in the Bible's teaching on election (a matter of ultimate authority)? Or are you saying that you don't believe the Scripture addresses election? You wrote, "And very frankly I do not think that it is substantively efficacious to even discus it." (sic) In didactic passages of the New Testament alone there are over 50 references to election. There are at least as many references to God's calling. Now, I can understand if you are saying that you don't want to know doctrinal positions on election in general, or orthodox Christian doctrine on election in particular. However, for the sake of clarity, I am forced to ask: Are you suggesting that some of the topics of Scripture are unnecessary or unworthy of our study? In Him, Doc PS See post #185415 for my further reply to the of the priority of the Word, stemming from your sideline topic of post #185400. |
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2 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185424 | ||
Hello doc, I appreciate your wanting to have a discussion on election. Thank you for your interest in my view on this subject. I believe that the Bible does not teach election as we know it, and that this can be a danger to proper understanding. I would rather prefer the term adoption. Election implies merit or worth. there is only one place in scripture that I can find that the term really fits that is Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ God's elect." KJV. Jesus being the only one worthy to elect. God bless. John |
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3 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185427 | ||
Hi, stjohn... Thank you for further explaining your position. You can see my own discussion of the doctrine of election in posts #151193, #151386, and elsewhere. Election is the cause, redemption and regeneration are the means, and adoption is one of the benefits. However, our salvation is not based in a proper understanding of election (see the quote by Spurgeon in post #151484). Since the Scripture uses these terms so extensively, we can be certain that God places some importance on their being understood. Therefore, it behooves us to be very certain that we understand them as He has explained them. We live by every word of God. The Christian life is founded on doctrine (post #165448), so it is important for us to make certain that our terms are clear. This is not only crucial for our walk with God, but also so that we can clearly explain what God has said to others. In addition to Titus 1:1, you will find this same Greek word for "elect" in the following verses: Matthew 20:16; 22:14; 24:22, 24, 31; Mark 13:20, 22, 27; Luke 18:7; 23:35; Romans 8:33; 16:13; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Peter 1:2; 2:4, 6, 9; 2 John 1:1, 13; Revelation 17:14. In addition, you'll find a related word in Mark 13:20; Luke 6:13; 10:42; 14:7; John 6:70; 13:18; 15:16, 19; Acts 1:2, 24; 6:5; 13:17; 15:7, 22, 25; 1 Corinthians 1:27, 28; Ephesians 1:4; James 2:5. It could lead to error to base one's understanding of the use of a word on a single verse. May the Lord be gracious to you in your study. In Him, Doc "This temper of mind is hostile to precise definitions. Indeed nothing makes a man more unpopular in the controversies of the present day than an insistence upon definition of terms... Men discourse very eloquently today upon such subjects as God, religion, Christianity, atonement, redemption, faith; but are greatly incensed when they are asked to tell in simple language what they mean by these terms." --John Gresham Machen |
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4 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185434 | ||
Hello Doc! And thanks! Here is a quote from a post of mine to brother Hobbs. I hope it will better explain my position. " We are chosen/elected for sure but we can refuse God. another problem that election cannot clear up is that God has made it clear, that His will, is that none should parish, election theorem has not cleared this up sufficiently for me. How and why this works, I don't know, and I don't think that they know ether. So this is why it is sufficient for me, for now, to pursue other teaching that the bible has to offer. Such as apologetics. i.e. how can I explain to the lost world why I believe what I believe, this will help me with what I believe should be our prime objective. i.e. Spread the Gospel to the lost sinners of the world." Ok, thats part of it, also I'm interested in eschatology, given the condition of things today, there is much that a person looking for answers can be helped with, having a good understanding of prophesy is very important to me. I have read the Bible through at least four times since my conversion just before the turn of the century still wet behind the ears but a very quick student. And have spent many hours, up to seven or eight a day on specific parts, 1cor is particularly interesting. I am currently attending bible study at least one hour a day. And by the way Doc I do have a better understanding of how redemption and regeneration and (adoption) works then it would appear from my use of the word, it was not the right word. I am quite good at making toughs kind of mistakes, as this word thing is relatively new to me, I seriously had not written more then 12 pages of any thing in my life up till the year 2000 (See my user profile for more info.) Also mildly dyslexic concentration is critical. I can so agree with John Gresham Machen, amen to that Brother, I am a student of human nature, so I can understand the new guy not being trusted, and am learning to be quick to forgive. I hold a honorary P.H.D. from whatsamatta U. the school of hard knocks. It is my intent to assuage mistrust. But I know that this sometimes takes time and many apologies, a heartfelt thanks for yours by the way. God Bless. John |
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