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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106104 | ||
I respond point by point: The doctrine of separation is well established and is central to our freedom. The issue is not your individual speech, but the 1954 congressional act that inserted "under God" into the Pledge. The real debate is narrowly defined and has nothing to do with how the constitution is interpreted. Your religious freedom is intact. Americans now enjoy the greatest religious liberty in history. No one here is persecuted for their faith. If you disagree, look at Sudan and then tell me you are suffering for your faith. No mention of God appears in the constitution, by design. The framers were careful to avoid this. While the creator is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, this document has no standing as law. Congress opens with prayer out of tradition, just like the Pledge. It is the job of the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution in terms of the document itself and precedents set by earlier courts, not to imagine what the framers intended. This is because the intent of the framers is not law. The Pledge, said every school day by millions of students, teachers and administrators is much more than a "mention". Again, your freedom of speech is not the issue, but rather the imposition of speech on those who may not believe as you do. Peace, David |
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2 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 106116 | ||
Greetings David! May I ask two quick questions my friend! First of all, where does the constitution say anything about mentioning God in public? In fact, where is 'seperation' mentioned in the constitution? Secondly, in your previous posts, you seemed to have been making the point that I personally would be violating the constitution if I personally say 'under God'. You said: "Rather, it is the question of whether or not "under god" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance and if Christians should obey if the Supreme Court rules it to be unconstitutional. " Why would I personally have to not say it? Now, one comment! I don't recall anyone ever be forced to say the pledge. In fact, for many years, public schools have not reguarly said the pledge at all. But, in recent years, the Supreme Court has made it clear that no one can be compelled to say it. So, the impostion of speech is really a strawman. However, my freedom of speech was infringed upon while I was in High School. Several times I was punished for the religious content of my speech. Once, I was threatened because I was reading my Bible during a 'free' reading time. While we may not be dying for our faith as of yet, we certainly do not live in a 'free' and 'unhostile' enviorment when it comes to the free exercise of our faith either. The constitution is being twised to mean freedom 'from' religion, not freedom of religion. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106122 | ||
My concern is that if the Supreme Court decides that congress' act to insert "under God" is unconsitutional, how many Christians will respect that ruling by acting in a manner that reflects WHY the court reached that decision. Yes, you are free to say "under God", but don't skirt the issue by saying that you're not coercing others to say it with you. For all practical purposes, young students are completely powerless to oppose what the teacher makes them do in class. Regarding your persecution in high school, I suspect that it was not the content of your speech, but rather the time, place and manner you delivered it that got you in trouble. From my experience here at a university, I suspect your persecutors would suggest you were disrupting the institution. Not that I agree, but that's how I expect they justified their actions agains you. |
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4 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 106126 | ||
Greetings Parable! First of all, if the Supreme Court decides that the congress acted unconsitutionally by insert 'under God', then congress will have to address their act. However, that decision has no bearing whatsoever on what I cannot or cannot personally say. This has been my point all along. You seem to have been saying in your posts that Christians would have to adust their personal conduct to be in obedience to the Supreme Court. But, my point was that the Supreme Court has no ability to make law, so their decision does not impact my personal conduct. Secondly, I have personally never coerced anyone to say 'under God' with me! :-) Have there been teachers who have? Perhaps! But, your original question was not whether or not 'under God' should be in the consititution, but how Christians should respond if the Supreme Court rules it unconstitutional to insert the phrase into the pledge. ;-) Finally, I respectfully submit that you are dead wrong regarding the persecution. In the instance regarding the Bible, the class was told to put our typewritters aways and quietly read whatever we wanted. I pulled my Bible out and proceeded to quitely read. I was pulled outside of the classroom and told that I was violating the Law by having a Bible in school. In another instance, I had cleared the topic of a major paper and speech prior to doing it with the teacher. After I received my paper back, it has an A (which was crossed out), a B (which was crossed out), a C (which was crossed out), and a D as my final letter grade. I asked the teacher about it and discovered that she did not like what I had said, even though it had been previously cleared by her. You have seen how I interact with people on this forum. I can honestly say that I have never been distruptive in my life. I always try to obey the rules and be respectful. Yet, I was indeed persecuted because of my faith. I agree that we have far more freedom as Christians here than we would anywhere else in the world. However, the winds are changing. We had better be prepared! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | kalos | 106135 | ||
Was it the intent of the framers of the Constitution that you be pulled outside of the classroom and told that tou were violating the Law by having a Bible in school? I seriously doubt it. Somehow under the law/constitution it is okay for a person to choose NOT to carry/read the Bible at school. But it is NOT okay for a person to choose TO carry/read a Bible. What is wrong with this picture? I see the rights of one group being protected, while the rights of another group are being violated. |
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6 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Norrie | 106190 | ||
Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, etc can all have their religious symbols, etc but not Christians. | ||||||