Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 66386 | ||
Dear Cyclist, Greetings in the name of Jesus! Brother, I commend you on your enthusiasm and manifest joy! I, too, wonder where the 'works,' 'requirements,' or 'neuter' ideas about water baptism come from. I feel that anyone with faith in God, the courage to ignore the traditions of men, and the conviction to read the Bible without prejudice, would come to the same conclusion as you and me. Jesus set the example for His followers, and they responded in obedience while under His tutelage, and later in the leading of the Holy Spirit. God is well-pleased with those that desire earnestly to please Him! I wonder if it pleases the Lord when a believer is water baptized only because he is told 1)"Otherwise, you're not saved!" (i.e. fear!) or 2)"It's just an outward show of what has already happened!" (i.e confirming religious ritual)? Or can the Lord be pleased when His people refuse baptism, saying, "Who cares?"(!) or "The early church needed it, but now our faith is 'mature!" (Yeah, right!)? I say an emphatic "NO!" in both cases. We NEED water baptism for our sanctification, not salvation. And it must be administered and received in faith, not ritual. The result is indeed, "WOW!" My friend, I wish my experience was as 'poetic!' :-) Though I knew the Bible recommended (I know, commanded) water baptism, I was putting it off. Then, one day I found myself standing at the top of the stairs leading into a baptistry. (I blame [BLESS!!] my wife for this predicament :-)) There were no trumpets trumping or angels singing (at least, not in MY ears), but I can solemnly proclaim that a washing took place that changed my life! Blessings and peace to you and yours. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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2 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | dhthinker | 66395 | ||
Charis: Great answer! I too believe that the Holy Spirit enters you upon Baptism. The contrast is those that say Baptism is an "optional" item. If it is optional, when does the Holy Spirit enter you? Is at the very last syllable of the "Praying Jesus into your heart"? (of which I don't beieve) The last breath? I simply don't believe my Lord would be so nebulous on such an important topic. Paul had everyone he converted baptized - the jailer and his family were baptized in the middle of the night. Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." Jn 3:5 Kind of says it all. Furthermore, from MY(emphasis on "my", we each need to study the Bible ourselves and not take other people's opinions of it as absolute truth) personal study of the Bible I believe three things are required for salvation: 1) Declare Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior; 2) Repent of your sins; and 3) be baptized in His name. The last words of Jesus before ascending to Earth were clear, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Mt 28:19. For those wanting to know the tenets of Christianity 101 - my Lord made it very simple, very clear on what my duty is as a follower, as a disciple. Yours in Christ, Don |
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3 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66400 | ||
Greetings Don! Good morning and welcome to the forum! You made the statement in your post that: "I too believe that the Holy Spirit enters you upon Baptism." How then would you explain the fact that believers in Acts 10:47 received the Holy Spirit prior to their water baptism? Here we have a clear cut example spelled out in chronological order. They heard Peter's preaching, responded, received the Holy Spirit, and were then baptized. Paul also makes it clear in Gal. 2:5 that the Holy Spirit is received when one believes the Gospel message: "Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?" John even proposes a test in 1 John 3:24 of how one can if one is a Christian or not: "Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us." Again, Paul says of believers in Eph. 1:13 that they receive the Holy Spirit after believing in Christ, "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit," Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 66407 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings again in Jesus' name! It's even later now, but when I saw your post I had to respond. :-) You wrote: "Paul also makes it clear in Gal. 2:5 that the Holy Spirit is received when one believes the Gospel message:" But that does not agree with the following: "It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying." Acts 19:1-6 NASB. It seems to me that this passage gets ignored a lot! Peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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5 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66409 | ||
Greetings again my friend! It's early for me! ;-) I would say that there is a very reasonable response to your point. They were not really believers at all. They knew of John, but they knew nothing of Christ. This would explain why they were re-baptized in the Name of Jesus. They could not have been true Christians for all are in agreement that Christians were routinely baptized in the Name of Jesus as quickly as possible, yet these individuals had not been baptized in the Name of Jesus and had not heard of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 66412 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in Jesus' name! Sorry, but this seems just too convenient. They are called 'disciples.' If they were disciples of John, this would have been stated. Also 'all are NOT in agreement!' :-) Most, however, agree that they were not converted by PAUL's ministry. When asked, "When you believed...," this doesn't seem to be talking about believing in John, but Christ. Just as the Twelve and other disciples of Christ prior to the Day of Pentecost, 'John's baptism' of repentance in preparation of the coming of the Messiah was the norm. This does not make them ignorant of Jesus the Christ. More likely they were ignorant of the events of the Day of Pentecost and the up-to-date teaching of Paul. Baptism in the name of Jesus is not mentioned prior to the Day of Pentecost. Brother, I admit your scenario is POSSIBLE, but not probable. There is little Scriptural evidence that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is automatic upon belief, or synonymous with belief, but more likely often 'concurrent,' as water baptism SHOULD be. Sometimes the 'way things should be' and 'the way things are' is different. (like Christians!) :-) Good night! (really!) In Christ Jesus, charis |
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7 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66413 | ||
Greetings Charis! Please don't answer this post tonight! Get some sleep first! :-) The command to baptize in Jesus name was given prior to pentecost. We may never know for sure what the status of these individuals was, but I am impressed by the fact they only knew John's baptism. Therefore, I don't believe they were Christians. However, regardless, we do have the case of the believers in Acts 10, who received the Holy Spirit immediately upon believing. Further, we have the Scriptures I quoted earlier which all refer to receiving the Spirit after believing. So, personally, I think there is more than adequate support that Christians receive the Holy Spirit immediately after believing. However, I did notice that you used the term 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Are you referring to the 'second work' of baptism? If you are, that might explain our difference in view. I am not speaking of a seond work, but the intial work of the Holy Spirit of baptizing us into Christ, sealing us, and indwelling us. I am open to the possiblity of a second work, but these works all occur upon belief. Have a good rest my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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