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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can you loose your salvation? | NT general Archive 1 | BradK | 123147 | ||
EdB, Here are my follow up thoughts to your question regarding the Doctrine of Eternal Security. Though this will certainly not be the final say on this matter, it will hopefully address at least some of your questions. My personal thought is to distinguish between salvation (our calling) and our resultant works. 1. Paul tells us in Eph. 4:1 to “have a walk worthy of our calling”. I don’t think our calling is in question but rather our walk or testimony. 2. Gal. 5:16 commands for us “to walk in the Spirit”, implying that we can chose not to. 3. Rom. 12:21 warns us “Do not be overcome be (the) evil. I think this implies that we can. Again, I don't see our salvation in jeopardy, but our walk. Certainly we don’t want to disqualify, taint, or tarnish our testimony so as to disqualify us ( 1 Cor. 9:27). While our standing, I believe is secure, our testimony or witness may not be, i.e. Jimmy Swaggart. I believe that is why we have so many scriptures admonishing us to order our lives and walk in such described manners. As Dr. Dale Johnsen writes on this matter he says "So, let me begin by defining my terms. By "eternal security", I mean that God guarantees us that our salvation, once truly received, lasts forever and cannot be lost. I mean that eternal life is a gift of God's grace that you receive through faith; it is not a reward for faithfully following Christ until you die. The second term I need to define is "assurance of salvation". Assurance means that you can know for certain that heaven will be your eternal home before you die. Not just hope so, but know so. The roots of our security are God's power and God's promise. The fruit of our being sure is peace. Some verses which seem to oppose eternal security: In Hebrews 10:26-31, there is a very severe warning of judgment, but it is directed to those who never ever truly became Christians. It is a warning to those who know all about the gospel and attend church, but who have never trusted Christ's blood-bought salvation in a personal way. Hebrews 6:4-6 is the toughest, thorniest passage of all. There are eight different interpretations of it. This is the main verse used by those who believe that you can lose your salvation. Those folks say that once you backslide away from God, and slip-slide back into your old ways, you need to get saved all over again. The only problem is that with that view is that to be consistent with Hebrews 6:6, once a person is saved and then lost, he can never become saved again. It says, "It is impossible ... if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance." Many people say this refers to a professing believer who was never truly saved at all. I disagree. I believe it describes a genuine Christian who falls away and loses, not his salvation, but his eternal rewards. To "fall away" means to withdraw from the church and repudiate their identification with Christ. Once this occurs, it is impossible for the church to bring them back to a point of repentance where they can press on to maturity ( Hebrews 5:11-6:3). By their turning their backs on Christ, they bring shame and public disgrace to Christ's reputation. Their judgment is pictured in verses 7-8. Instead of fruit, their life will produce thorns. Instead of blessings, they will reap curses. (This refers back to Deuteronomy 28-30, not to eternal damnation.) The result is that all their life's works will be burned in the fire of Christ's judgment seat (see 1 Corinthians 3:15). When land is burned, it does not consume the soil; it only consumes the worthless weeds on top of the soil. This is divine chastisement, not damnation. Because of this, the answer to this question can't be solved by just quoting "proof-texts" or by listening to human experiences. Rather, we need to examine the whole big picture, then draw some logical conclusions about what to believe. Remember that later on in your life, if you seriously misbehave, or if you start to disbelieve, even though you will not lose your salvation, there is much that you will lose. You will lose your fellowship with God; you will lose the approval of God; you will lose your influence for God; you will lose the fruit of the Spirit in your life; you will lose your testimony, your reputation, you health, your relationships, and perhaps even your physical life; you will most definitely lose your eternal rewards. Everyone in heaven will have a full cup, but the diameters of those cups will be of different sizes. If you turn away from living for Christ in this life, instead of entering heaven with a wide cup of blessings, yours will be only a narrow thimble full, and that level of poverty won't change throughout all eternity. Even though God does not disown us completely, there are eternal consequences to unfaithfulness." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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2 | Can you loose your salvation? | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 123242 | ||
Bradk Again it is not sin that costs us salvation it is us breaking relationship with Christ. How can we be joint heirs with Christ if we deny His existence? How can we share in the glories of heaven if we despise God? Wouldn't that be a great place having someone hurl rocks at God every time He passes by. Many people use the analogy that once saved is like being in a family here on earth. We can do all kinds of things, even leaving the family but we are still children of that family. We carry the name. In a sense that is right. However if we start writing checks against the family's account the family for it's own protection will disown us. We may still carry the name but we are disowned. If someone who is saved (for the sake of this discussion) and then begins to demonize Christ for his own wealth. Or starts doing things that instead of glorifying God throws mud upon God's name I'm sorry but I see Christ will in fact disown them. Like I said sin will not do it alone we have to break relationship with Christ. He is our brother but if we do things that discredit our brother he will eventually pull away from us. From that I believe there is no recovery just as Hebrew 6 states. You say we must resolve this by looking at the whole Bible. Let us do. First the first children of God lost their salvation. Second all through the Old Testament we see people, nations that turn from God and are lost(Saul, Balaam, Korath to name but a few). In the New Testament we see example after example of men women that were in relationship with Christ but betrayed that relationship (Judas, Ananias Sapphira, to name just a few) Now we can discuss all day were they really saved or not. I don't know nor does anyone this side of heaven, however they did have relationship with the Christ and have appeared to have lost it. If one man, Adam, can reject eternal life having once possessed it then same has to be true of all men to be just as we understand justice. The real interesting part of this whole discussion is I really don't think a truly saved person can do those things. If you are REALLY in relationship with Christ I don't think you would ever consider breaking relationship. I think what we see happening is many who think they are saved are not. I believe that many feel they are saved because they acknowledge Jesus Christ and James clearly told us that is not enough. Jesus said if you love Me you will obey my commands. Many believe but few obey. Many are called but few are chosen. The way is narrow and I think many will never know how very narrow it is because they fell off long ago. I see many as the man at the wedding. They never put on their robe of righteousness but kept the worlds clothes on them. If I was to offer a guess I would guess about 10 percent of those that attend church/call themselves Christians have in fact their names written in "The book of Life". I think the teaching of once saved always saved is the biggest factor for keeping many of these people from finding the truth. They are comfortable calling Christ Lord being assured they are saved and can't lose it and living like hell on this earth. If you think about it, it is a silly argument. How far can I go before Christ disowns me. What craziness! Our question should be what can I do to please Him? We are called to be servants but we want waited on. We are called to pick up our cross and follow him but we want all the good things of life. We call Him master but don’t want anyone telling us how to live. We call Him truth but we want to define our own truths. I contend that no real Christian really wonders if his salvation can be lost he is too busy serving God to worry about it. EdB |
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