Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92349 | ||
Niclac, I do not see what you see the scripture "clearly says about baptism." You are interpreting the passages according to your theology and training rather than seeing them literally as the sacraments they are with the water and the Spirit being connected with the Spirit as the efficacious and and the water as the instrumental means of grace. The case of Cornelius is clearly a unique case and even that is subject to some interpretation. See also Acts 21:16, where Paul says, descibing his own baptism, Annaias said " Why delay? Get up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name." See also Acts 9:17-19. Other similar foreshadowing examples of matter and spirit working together for a healing are Naaman bathing in the river Jordan. If he did it your way he would have insisted God heal him without the bathing in the river and then he would have bathed in the Jordan as a public display of his belief and obedience. Fortunately he took better advice than his own counsul. See also the blind man whom Jesus cured by spitting and making mud that he put on the man's eyes. In either of these cases was it God or the water that healed. Obviously God, but He worked through matter. And that is not even to touch on the typology and forshadowing of baptism seen with Noah and the Flood and the crossing of the Red Sea. See 2 Peter 3:18-22 and 1 Cor 10:2. God did the work, but He used the physical matter of His creation to accomplish His saving work. One should think of the Incarnation in a similar manner. Why did God take on flesh to accomplish do His salvific work? We Catholics are rather old fashioned in some things and perfer to follow the biblical pattern seen in both Testaments. Surely you can respect that if not agree with it at this point. Emmaus |
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2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92354 | ||
Emmaus, I admit I am interpreting the scriptures in light of my theology and training. Like the Bereans in scripture, scripture and the Holy Spirit are my guide to my theology. Now, if you are honest, you too are iterpreting scripture in light of your theology, which comes from the Catholic Catechism as well as your training therein. Certainly I respect your point of view and was just making the point from Acts 10,11, Eph 2, Romans 4-5, and Titus and Galatians, just name a few, that regeneration and justification and salvation is a work of God alone and not merited by our works,whether, baptism, communion,pennance etc. That's all. It is interesting discussion and one that some friends of mine are having with a member of the LDS church. They of course have their requirements for complete forgiveness and salvation, which is mandated by their church. Nevertheless, this discussion has been around for centuries and I think it is healthy to search the scriptures and let the word of God dot its work in our hearts. May He give us eyes to see and ears to hear, so that we might delight in His truth. In peace, Brad | ||||||
3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92356 | ||
Brad, The discussion has been around for the centuries since the Reformation. For 1500 years before that there was agreement. Check the history. Please don't group LDS and Catholic positions on baptism together. It is not fair either to the LDS nor the Catholics and neither would be happy grouped together. They do not have have the same theology on baptism at all. Emmaus |
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4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92357 | ||
Emmaus, I agree with you, the LDS view of Baptism is different. I also affirm that you and I share much more in common theologicaly than LDS. Actually, I don't share much of anything with LDS. But with the issue of soteriology I am disagreement with both groups. I must say that when you mentioned that before the Reformation there was agreement. I would definately beg to differ. Why do you think the creeds were written? Which I agree with, by the way. They were written to combat heresy, such as Pelagian heresy(dealing with soteriology), others include the Arian heresy, Sabellian heresy as well others. All occurring prior to the Reformation. The Reformation was needed, because, at that point in time the Church had fallen away from the central tenants of Holy scripture and irrefutably became corrupt. Way more could be said, but nevertheless, these controversies span well before the Reformation. Christians must continualy appeal the authority of scripture and be careful not to let tradition trump the word of God. In Christ, Brad |
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5 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92383 | ||
Brad, I will presume then that you agree with the portion of the Nicean Creed that says: "We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins..." You may have the last word if you wish. If we pursue this much further we might rightly be accused of beating the proverbial horse. Emmaus |
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6 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92659 | ||
certainly I agree! The baptism of the Holy Spirit upon faith. The very one John the Baptist said would come with Christ(Acts 10-11)Not of water, but of spirit, the same Spirit that quickens a man who is dead in Sin.(Eph 2). Emmaus, thanks for the dialogue, it has been edifying and enriching. To God be the Glory, Brad | ||||||