Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Norrie | 18134 | ||
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're thinking. I believe that we are spirit, soul and body. Your spirit is what needs to be reborn, I'm not sure whether "dead" means just not alive in Christ or dead to Christ but will still live in hell, probably. When are spirit is reborn to Christ, then we need to constantly go thru the process of lining our soul (mind, will and emotions) and body up w/our spirit. But I would imagine that a dead spirit will still suffer the pangs of hell, wouldn't you? | ||||||
2 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 18158 | ||
The spirit is what died when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit. It is only by means of the spirit that a person can have fellowship with God. To simplify it, the human spirit is like a receiver to absorb and understand God's signals or message to us, and visa versa. Just like a television set receives the signals that are constantly going through your house, it makes the signals real to you with a picture and sound. If you would try to tell a person who knows nothing about television or has never seen television or heard a radio, that there are signal passing through your house and you tell them how much you are enjoying them, they would think it was foolishness and that you must have a screw loose or something. Thus we have I Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but (conjunction of contrast) unto us which are saved it (the cross where Jesus paid the price required) is the power of God. It is interesting to note, that the word for death, in the Greek language is THANATOS, it actually means separation. It does not mean that consciousness stops. The soul will live on forever, once it is born, it is the real you. Either your soul will live with God, in eternal bless because you have received His gift of eternal life, that His Son Jesus paid for; or it will live in a place of eternal torment for rejecting God's free gift. At any rate the only thing that can send a person to the lake of fire, is the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ as their savior. Like the song says, Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe. CDBJ |
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3 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 18173 | ||
Where does it say Adam's spirit dies, or even left him? | ||||||
4 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Norrie | 18175 | ||
That is a good question. I remember Copeland teaching it, made sense, but is it scriptural? Would you say that maybe it started w/his kids then if not him? After all, doesn't having original sin mean we are born w/a dead to Christ spirit so we need to be reborn? | ||||||
5 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18198 | ||
This is a good question. Though there is not a scripture as such that says that Adam's spirit died, by the process of elimination, we can achieve some sense of what happened. It really goes back to what we believe about man's make up. Let's look at a couple of possible scenarios: 1) Man is two parts : body and soul/spirit (same thing). Now we know that Adam did not physically die the day he sinned. He lived to about 900 years as I recall. So, if one holds to a two-part man understanding, the soul/spirit would have been the only thing left to die that very day. Most biblical references to the soul show it to be the seat of intellect, emotions, and will. If this is the part of him that died, it becomes a little hard to swallow because he still had intellect, emotions, and will after the fall (as did his children). Obviously, his body did start to 'die', age and grow old. But Gen 2:17 says that 'something' in Adam died that day. In fact, whatever this 'something' is, from God's viewpoint it was Adam's identity. 'You will die', God says, not 'part of you will die.' 2) Man is two parts: body and soul/spirit (same thing). But God, at creation, imparted the Holy Spirit to Adam making him, at that point, tripartate. Then God withdrew the Holy Spirit when Adam sinned because God cannot inhabit a sinful vessel. This view has it's problems because, again, God said, "You (not God or His Spirit) will die." 3) Man is tripartate: body, soul, and spirit (his own). When Adam sinned his spirit died, leaving him still with a functional (though fallen) soul and body. In this view, some say that Adam's spirit literally died, and some believe that it was still alive (to sin) but dead to God. Adam's spirit could no longer function as designed. 4) Man is tripartate in nature but is designed to have his spirit inhabited by God's Spirit. This is the view that I personally lean to although I am open to hearing other views. This view is very similar to number 3 except that it hold's that God designed man not to be autonimous but dependent upon God's Spirit (spiritual life) in Him. When Adam sinned, God's Spirit departed from Adam and, as in view 3, Adam's human spirit died to God. God, at new birth of His creation, recreates the human spirit (alive to God) and joins it to His divine Spirit once again. So that the end result is that man is once again spiritually alive and God is in His creation as designed. Admittedly, the scriptures do not prove this. I am not 100 percent sure that this is a correct understanding. What I am sure of is that our spirits (1 per person, please) have been recreated and joined to Christ's Spirit. All that being said, if someone would like to 'gently' correct me or enlighten my understanding, I am open to it. I would like to settle this issue in my mind and, unfortunately, most of the people at my church are not interested in such 'deep':) things. Nevertheless, I know who I am in Christ and, thank God, I am no longer in Adam. As always, in Christ, Bill Mc |
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6 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | There | 18222 | ||
Hi Bill, I've been sharing my "understanding" too, and I'm not sure which parts I have "right". I'm sure that point comes across. #4 in your post seems feasible, but to some degree it creates even more questions for me. That happens a lot I'm afraid. :):) As to #4, I do agree that "God designed man not to be autonimous but dependent upon God's Spirit (spiritual life) in Him". But if Adam was created with God's Spirit within him, then I would have two questions to start with. 1. Why would God put the "tree of life" in the garden with Adam... if He already had that "life"? 2) Then it would seem that we who are "born of the Spirit" could also lose or have God's Spirit removed from us for sinning just as Adam did. Yet God gives the Holy Spirit as a surety or earnest toward the completion of our salvation (2Cor. 1:22, 5:5; Eph. 1:14) [earnest - 728 "arrhabon" a pledge, i.e. part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest.] So I'm not sure that Adam was given anything different than we were except that his "soul"(mind) reflected or resembled God at it's creation because it had never sinned. Ours doesn't, until it is born of the Spirit. Of course that thought could bring up questions possibly about an "age of reason" or "sins of the fathers" too. :) #3 though seems understandable to me. To me there are definitely 3 separate parts to man -- body/spirit/soul. My reason for saying this: 1) the body is dust and will return to dust. 2) the spirit which is immortal will return to God who gave it. [immortal is included in the meaning of the word 4151] 3) the soul (spirit of the mind - concordance also mentions "spirit") of an un-saved person will not return or go to God at a person's death. Only if it is "born of the Spirit" can it go to God. Since God "breathed into" Adam once, I assume the complete spirit package came to Adam at one time. THE spirit (of life) and the spirit of the mind (soul). Which is why I see a connection. An example to explain what I mean. If I have an orange in my hand... the whole thing is an orange. If I remove a slice from the orange, the remainder PLUS the slice are still "orange". Neither will be "whole", but they are still both "orange". And I think the spirit is kind of like that too. God gave man a spirit. A part of that spirit is the soul. PART but not the exact same thing. Another reason I think THE spirit and the soul(mind) of man are connected is that God's Word is the only thing that can divide the two. If they were not "together", they could not be divided at all. So my thoughts go like this. If God made Adam's spirit (of life)[THE spirit] "in His image", then it(spirit and soul/mind) would automatically return to God at a person's death whether or not it was "re-born". ('the spirit will return to God who gave it') Since it is the "spirit" of the mind that must be renewed, it makes sense to me that the soul(mind) which is spirit is the part that would need to be born again, or "renewed in the knowledge according to the image of Him who created him". That renewal, or new birth of the spirit of our mind is the only way man can reflect the image of God. ["image" of God actually means "resemblance" or "representative" of God.] So those are a few of my thoughts on this. God bless. |
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7 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18237 | ||
Hi There :), I do indeed appreciate your input. You bring up some very good points. Permit me to answer your questions: 1) If the number 4 view is correct, it does not invalidate the tree of life in the garden. My reasoning is that God put His divine life in Adam, but Adam (and Eve) had to choose whether or not they would keep that forever by eating from the tree of life. I believe that by God's design, man needed to make a choice considering what 'life' he would live out of. This is pure speculation, but I think that they could have chosen to eat from the tree of life and then they would have had God as their source in them forever. Instead, they chose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and chose not to remain dependant upon God and what He said. So, if number 4 is correct, God withdrew His divine life from them and they died. In a nutshell, they, on some level, chose NOT to walk in the Spirit (with God as their source) and decided to walk in the flesh (with themselves and their souls as their source). 2) If this is true (big IF), then why doesn't God withdraw His Spirit and life from us when we sin? Because Jesus paid for the complete penalty. If view 4 is correct, Adam and Eve suffered the wages of their sin (spiritual death) the day they disobeyed God. But God has designed man in such a way that he 'runs' on God. He is not designed to be self-sufficient. Only God is self-sufficient. Self-sufficiency is the lie of Satan - "You don't need God's sufficiency. Do this and you will be like Him." He preaches the same garbage even now, "Do these things and you will be more godly..." The thing that made God withdraw His Spirit is sin. (Consider Saul and David.) But Christ has dealt with our sin on an eternal basis on the cross - taking it away. So now, for the believer indwelt by God, when we sin we deserve spiritual death - separation from God. We deserve for God's Spirit to leave us. Why can't that happen as it did to Adam and Eve, Saul, David? Because Christ has taken away that penalty. He took it all. So now, even though the wages of sin is death, the gift of God is ETERNAL (you can no longer lose it) LIFE. This is why Rom 8 says that there is no more judgment (condemnation) left for the believer. Why? Because the law of the spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus has set me free from the old law that said 'if you sin, you die'. God's Spirit will never leave me nor forsake me because the ONLY thing that could make Him do so, sin, has been taken care of at the cross. But, even as a believer indwelt by the Spirit, I can still chose to walk out of the sufficiency of Christ in me (walk by the Spirit) or walk by my own sufficiency (really, from Satan's lie) and walk in the flesh. That is why Paul urges me to walk by the Spirit and I won't fulfill the desires of my flesh. But, even if I do, at some point, choose my flesh, He doesn't leave me like He did Adam. Here's my comments on the spirit/soul thingy. I believe that the spirit is the true essence, the true identity. It is the core of our being and, once it is united with God's Spirit, we are to believe out of that resource. I believe that the spirit of the man, not his soul, is his true identity. This is the true inner man, the eternal part of him. That being said, I think that the soul is the 'personality' that the spirit maifests itself through. The spirit is the essence but it 'displays' itself through the soul - mind, will, emotions. The soul (with God's Spirit as it's source) manifests itself through the body to others. Man without the Spirit of God, can only respond to his environment and others around him out of his soul - what do I think, what do I feel, what do I want? Living out of the soul resource is fleshly. But with God's Spirit in us, God wants us to live out of His sufficiency. God does not want the Christian to live out of his soul alone. What we think, what we feel, what we want, is not only self-centered, it changes from minute to minute. God wants us to live out of our spiritual union with Christ. This involves getting past what we think, feel, and want to what God says is true - His Word, Christ in us. I'm not sure about the disembodied spirit returning to God in an unbeliever. We know that the spirit can be corrupted. There are evil spirits, spirits in Hell. So I don't think that all 'spirit' is necessarily divine and returns to God. But I'm not sure on this point and your view has considerable merit. I do see that the soul can be sent to hell. I'm not sure about the spirit. Again, thanks for your post. I agree that our new birth once again allows man to reflect the Creator. Jesus Christ was the EXACT representation of the Father. "If you've seen ME, then you have seen the Father." Would that the world could always see CHRIST IN US, the hope of glory. Blessings to you, There, Bill Mc |
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8 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 18242 | ||
Bill Mc, Do unbelievers have a spirit? There had good points, including about the Tree of Life. When God said that Adam would die (Gen 2:17), He did not say when, nor what part. We know that he died physically (Gen 5:5). So that could of been what God was saying. I could buy that his spirit died, except it is what drives the soul ... as has been discussed. I also think that he would of never come out of hiding if he did not have a spirit. It may of been no longer pure ... or maybe it was his soul that was impure. I think all men have souls and spirits. Steve |
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9 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18247 | ||
Steve, God did indeed say when - Gen 2:17 - "but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for IN THE DAY that you eat from it you will surely die." Satan echoed this - Gen 3:5 - "For God knows that IN THE DAY you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Granted, God did not say what part. But if you re-read my post, I stated that we can come to some understanding concerning what did not die. To say that it was only physical death does not line up with the rest of scripture that says that, because of Adam's disobedience, we are born dead in trespasses and sins. CDBJ has a good explanation in this thread about what 'dead' means here. I, too, think that every man has a soul and spirit. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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10 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 18262 | ||
Bill Mc, I was looking at the NIV, which does not have the time. I looked at others; most have "in the day". Steve | ||||||
11 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18263 | ||
I understand. I use the NIV quite often. It is an excellent dynamic equivalent translation. But it does, occasionally, have a few problems. This is where some other formal equivalent translations shine. Blessings to you, Bill Mc. | ||||||