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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18237 | ||
Hi There :), I do indeed appreciate your input. You bring up some very good points. Permit me to answer your questions: 1) If the number 4 view is correct, it does not invalidate the tree of life in the garden. My reasoning is that God put His divine life in Adam, but Adam (and Eve) had to choose whether or not they would keep that forever by eating from the tree of life. I believe that by God's design, man needed to make a choice considering what 'life' he would live out of. This is pure speculation, but I think that they could have chosen to eat from the tree of life and then they would have had God as their source in them forever. Instead, they chose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and chose not to remain dependant upon God and what He said. So, if number 4 is correct, God withdrew His divine life from them and they died. In a nutshell, they, on some level, chose NOT to walk in the Spirit (with God as their source) and decided to walk in the flesh (with themselves and their souls as their source). 2) If this is true (big IF), then why doesn't God withdraw His Spirit and life from us when we sin? Because Jesus paid for the complete penalty. If view 4 is correct, Adam and Eve suffered the wages of their sin (spiritual death) the day they disobeyed God. But God has designed man in such a way that he 'runs' on God. He is not designed to be self-sufficient. Only God is self-sufficient. Self-sufficiency is the lie of Satan - "You don't need God's sufficiency. Do this and you will be like Him." He preaches the same garbage even now, "Do these things and you will be more godly..." The thing that made God withdraw His Spirit is sin. (Consider Saul and David.) But Christ has dealt with our sin on an eternal basis on the cross - taking it away. So now, for the believer indwelt by God, when we sin we deserve spiritual death - separation from God. We deserve for God's Spirit to leave us. Why can't that happen as it did to Adam and Eve, Saul, David? Because Christ has taken away that penalty. He took it all. So now, even though the wages of sin is death, the gift of God is ETERNAL (you can no longer lose it) LIFE. This is why Rom 8 says that there is no more judgment (condemnation) left for the believer. Why? Because the law of the spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus has set me free from the old law that said 'if you sin, you die'. God's Spirit will never leave me nor forsake me because the ONLY thing that could make Him do so, sin, has been taken care of at the cross. But, even as a believer indwelt by the Spirit, I can still chose to walk out of the sufficiency of Christ in me (walk by the Spirit) or walk by my own sufficiency (really, from Satan's lie) and walk in the flesh. That is why Paul urges me to walk by the Spirit and I won't fulfill the desires of my flesh. But, even if I do, at some point, choose my flesh, He doesn't leave me like He did Adam. Here's my comments on the spirit/soul thingy. I believe that the spirit is the true essence, the true identity. It is the core of our being and, once it is united with God's Spirit, we are to believe out of that resource. I believe that the spirit of the man, not his soul, is his true identity. This is the true inner man, the eternal part of him. That being said, I think that the soul is the 'personality' that the spirit maifests itself through. The spirit is the essence but it 'displays' itself through the soul - mind, will, emotions. The soul (with God's Spirit as it's source) manifests itself through the body to others. Man without the Spirit of God, can only respond to his environment and others around him out of his soul - what do I think, what do I feel, what do I want? Living out of the soul resource is fleshly. But with God's Spirit in us, God wants us to live out of His sufficiency. God does not want the Christian to live out of his soul alone. What we think, what we feel, what we want, is not only self-centered, it changes from minute to minute. God wants us to live out of our spiritual union with Christ. This involves getting past what we think, feel, and want to what God says is true - His Word, Christ in us. I'm not sure about the disembodied spirit returning to God in an unbeliever. We know that the spirit can be corrupted. There are evil spirits, spirits in Hell. So I don't think that all 'spirit' is necessarily divine and returns to God. But I'm not sure on this point and your view has considerable merit. I do see that the soul can be sent to hell. I'm not sure about the spirit. Again, thanks for your post. I agree that our new birth once again allows man to reflect the Creator. Jesus Christ was the EXACT representation of the Father. "If you've seen ME, then you have seen the Father." Would that the world could always see CHRIST IN US, the hope of glory. Blessings to you, There, Bill Mc |
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2 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 18242 | ||
Bill Mc, Do unbelievers have a spirit? There had good points, including about the Tree of Life. When God said that Adam would die (Gen 2:17), He did not say when, nor what part. We know that he died physically (Gen 5:5). So that could of been what God was saying. I could buy that his spirit died, except it is what drives the soul ... as has been discussed. I also think that he would of never come out of hiding if he did not have a spirit. It may of been no longer pure ... or maybe it was his soul that was impure. I think all men have souls and spirits. Steve |
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3 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18247 | ||
Steve, God did indeed say when - Gen 2:17 - "but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for IN THE DAY that you eat from it you will surely die." Satan echoed this - Gen 3:5 - "For God knows that IN THE DAY you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Granted, God did not say what part. But if you re-read my post, I stated that we can come to some understanding concerning what did not die. To say that it was only physical death does not line up with the rest of scripture that says that, because of Adam's disobedience, we are born dead in trespasses and sins. CDBJ has a good explanation in this thread about what 'dead' means here. I, too, think that every man has a soul and spirit. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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4 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 18262 | ||
Bill Mc, I was looking at the NIV, which does not have the time. I looked at others; most have "in the day". Steve | ||||||
5 | Body/soul/spirit? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 18263 | ||
I understand. I use the NIV quite often. It is an excellent dynamic equivalent translation. But it does, occasionally, have a few problems. This is where some other formal equivalent translations shine. Blessings to you, Bill Mc. | ||||||