Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do you accept defeat too? | Heb 10:14 | Gal5:16 | 108093 | ||
2 Samuel 22: Thank you for your login id. I read (or understood) that chapter for the first time. Do you accept defeat too? The passage that is your creed paints an entirely different picture. "For I have kept the ways of the Lord. I have not done evil by turning from his decrees. I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin.", and later "It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect" Keep in mind that 2 Samuel 22 is after 2 Samuel 12. David repented, and trusted God to produce righteousness in him. |
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2 | Do you accept defeat too? | Heb 10:14 | Makarios | 108154 | ||
Greetings Gal5:16, In no way are we "accepting defeat" by stating the truth about human beings and sin. Each one of us is born into the world with a "sinful nature" that stays with us until we die (Ephesians 2:3). The presence of the sin nature alone would seem to make any form of perfectionism impossible. Also, the great saints of the Bible seemed to all recognize their own intrinsic sinfulness (Isaiah 6:5; Daniel 9:4-19; Ephesians 3:8). If anyone could have attained sinless perfection, certainly Isaiah, Daniel and the apostle Paul would have been contenders. But none of them succeeded. Why? Because they still had the sin nature in them that erupted in their lives from time to time. I am not saying that truly recognizing our present state as imperfect until we are made imperishable by Christ is a license for us to sin during this present state! God's Word clearly forbids sinful living and carnality (Rom. 6:15-22; 13:13,14; Gal. 5:13,16,17,25,26; Titus 2:11-14). Therefore, for us to claim to be able to attain sinless perfection is a perfect error. :-) Blessings to you, Makarios |
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3 | Do you accept defeat too? | Heb 10:14 | Morant61 | 108203 | ||
Greetings Makarios! This topic has always interested me. :-) If Christians still have a sinful nature, then in what way do the following statement fit a Christian? 1) Rom. 6:6 - "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." 2) Rom. 6:12 - "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires." 3) Rom. 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." 4) Rom. 6:22 - "But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." 5) Rom. 8:4 - "in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit." 6) Rom. 8:13 - "For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live," I have always had a hard time reconciling these statements with the view that Christians still have a sinful nature. My understanding is as follows: When we become Christians, we become new Creations (2 Cor. 5:17) and the old man is put to death (Rom. 6:6) so that we are no longer slaves to sin. Does this mean that we cannot sin? No! But, it does mean that it is possible for us to not sin, if we are walking in the Spirit. Consequently, I don't see Rom. 7 as a description of a Christian, but of a Pharisee (Paul) trying to live in obedience to the Law while still a slave to sin (which of course, is not possible). But, Rom. 8 describes what happened to him after he came to Christ. So, I don't believe that Christians are constantly stuggling with a sin nature. The old man has been put to death. However, we do constantly struggle with our own will. :-) But, now we have a choice whether to sin or not. Let me know what you think my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Do you accept defeat too? | Heb 10:14 | Makarios | 108308 | ||
Greetings Tim! I believe that we continue to struggle with this body of sin right up until death, but I really do wish that you and Gal5:16 were correct in saying that we don't have to struggle any longer. I must say in all truth that I believe that what makes me sinful will not leave me until the point of my bodily death. I believe that we become new creations in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17) when we accept Him, but at the same time, we are constantly admonished throughout the New Testament not to sin (Hebrews 6:4; Galatians 5:19-21; James 3). Therefore, why would James and Paul and the writer of Hebrews feel it so important to continue to admonish their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ not to sin, if we would be completely free of the sinful nature at the time of conversion? I agree with you that we are no longer slaves to sin, and I agree that can and should resist sin on all accounts. 1) Rom. 6:6 - "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin." I believe that the 'key' to understanding this verse is in the phrase "that we should no longer be slaves to sin".. We are not slaves to sin once we become freed in Christ. But at the same time, is your "earthly tent" that you live in still alive? So is mine. :-) Therefore, Romans 12:1; 8:13 and 1 Corinthians 9:27 show even more applicability than before for me, since I must master sin in my life. 2) Rom. 6:12 - "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires." I believe that this is a verse that directly conveys that sin continues to be persistent, even after salvation, but we must bring it under subjection (1 Cor. 9:27). 3) Rom. 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." I believe that this verse has to do with our 'focus' moreso than anything else. We have changed the 'focus' from being slaves to our own pleasures and desires to becoming slaves to God's will and His holiness. 4) Rom. 6:22 - "But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." This is such a beautiful verse! Since our focus has been changed from ourselves to God by becoming bondslaves in faith to Christ, then we will "benefit" in our sanctification, and ultimately, be rewarded with eternal life! 5) Rom. 8:4 - "in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit." The law continues to be a moral guide for the believer, so to speak, even though it is not a means of salvation. But those who have Christ have the law written on their hearts! (Jer. 31:33) We no longer let the sinful nature direct our lives, but we live according to the direction of the Holy Spirit. 6) Rom. 8:13 - "For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live," One fascinating part of this verse says, "if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body.." By that phrase, I interpret the meaning that we are continuing to "put to death the deeds of the body", and through overcoming sin, we will gain righteousness in accordance with our sanctification. I do not see sin as 'dying' at one glorious point of conversion, but 'taking a backseat' to the new creation that is now in us. We must 'take up our cross daily' (Luke 9:23).. We do not take up our cross only once for all time. We must do this daily, so that we can be on guard and in prayer to keep from succumbing to sin. I seriously believe that I am in no way exempt completely from my body of sin, even though I do experience victory over it, and continue to grow. I believe that the only way that I could ever be completely free from this sinful nature that I have is to witness my body's own death, since the body is dead without the spirit (James 2:26), but the spirit goes to be with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8). But as long as the spirit remains in the body, then the body is kept alive, and our capacity to sin will always be present as long as our bodies of sin remains alive. Blessings to you, dear Brother in Christ! Makarios |
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5 | Do you accept defeat too? | Heb 10:14 | Morant61 | 108394 | ||
Greetings Makarios! It is good to hear from you my dear friend! We seem to be saying it differently, but we seem to be saying much the same thing. Allow me to explain what I mean. By 'sin nature', I mean the nature described in Rom. 7. Those who have a 'sin nature' have no choice but to sin. They are it's slaves. For Christians though, this 'sin nature' is put to death on the cross. Now, this does not mean that a Christian is incapable of sinning. Rom. 6 makes it clear (and many other verses to which you referred as well) that Christians must choose to obey God daily. But, the struggle now is just one of will, not nature. I can grow cold in my relationship with Christ, or I can allow sin to gain a foothold in my life, but I do not have to do these things. As long as I am walking in the Spirit, I will not sin. Where I agree with our friend Gal5:16 is that Christ totally deals with our sin nature and makes us new creatures. I think people 'freak out' a bit when they hear the term 'entire sanctification' or 'sinless perfection'. But, these terms do not mean that a person is incapable of sinning. They do mean though that a person is capable of not sinning. There is a subtle, but powerful difference between the two statements. I just preached on this topic on the last Sunday of the year. I preached from Eph. 4:17-24, where Paul basically was upset at the Ephesians because though they were new creations, they were still living like the 'old man'. Well, I have a meeting to go to this morning. So, I have to run! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Do you accept defeat too? | Heb 10:14 | Makarios | 108398 | ||
Greetings Tim! Good stuff! I promise a reply when I come home from work tonight (anywhere from 6-10pm), Lord willing! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Makarios |
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