Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | once saved, always saved? | Col 1:13 | New Creature | 75805 | ||
Joe Many people are taught many things through mistakes they have made. That does not mean you can undo the mistake that has been committed. It also may be possible that they were being taught a lesson, just like Ananias and his wife Sapphira were being taught so that others may fear and not make the same mistake. So as I see it Paul was not trying to say it was possible for Hymenaeus and Alexander to be renewed to repentance a second time, (Heb. 6:4-6) any more that it would be likely for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira to be undone. Either way those are my assumptions vs. your assumptions about the text in question since the text does not specifically say what either of us has implied thus far. Based on that the imagery of a shipwreck and what it depicts about being completely and finally lost and ruined in the depths is a more likely senario that seems at least to me to agree with 1 Tim. 1:18-20 I do however appreciate and respect your opinions on this topic. Check out the following rendering of the text in this debate. It might give us another clue to the meaning or at least some fuel for more discussion. 1 Timothy 1 18 My son Timothy, here is what I tell you to do. And it is what the prophets said about you before. Remember their words, and fight like a good soldier. 19 Keep on believing. Do only what you know is right. Some people have not done that and they have stopped believing. 20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them. I have given them to Satan so that they will be punished and learn not to teach things that do not respect God. (Worldwide English New Testament) God Bless New Creature |
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2 | once saved, always saved? | Col 1:13 | Reformer Joe | 75829 | ||
I don't see the account of Ananias and Sapphira as a lesson to them, but rather the judgment of God and a lesson for others. One could hardly say that as a result the two corpses learned not to lie to the Holy Spirit (even though I am sure they never did it again). If we are talking about the imagery of the shipwreck, we could also look at the imagery that Scripture uses to describe regeneration. We see justification (being declared righteous because of what Christ accomplished); redemption (being purchased with the shed blood of Christ...does God sell back the one who falls away?); new birth (does one become "un-born again"?); becoming a new creation (only to become an old creation again?); being transferred by God from one kingdom to another (only to be transferred back?); etc. To me it seems like the images surrounding the transformation of the Christian seem a whole lot more one-way than a shipwreck. Many scholars also consider this shipwreck to be a wrecking of their profession of faith, since that also would be consistent with the sin of blasphemy. --Joe! |
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3 | once saved, always saved? | Col 1:13 | New Creature | 75871 | ||
Joe since you asked "new birth (does one become "un-born again"?)" Let me respond and answer with a quote I found concerning that question. "I have listened many times to an explanation of eternal security based upon the analogy of sonship. "My child is born into my family and he will always be my child. He cannot be unborn. Whether obedient or disobedient, he will always be my child." This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn" but whether it can sicken and die. Doctors do not admonish parents about the dangers of their child being "unborn" but rather about proper care of the child to keep it from dying.In fact if the baby is not fed it will soon die. In the same way, Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53 (from a source unknown to me) Beacause of what many verses of the Bible state, I have no choice but to believe that a person who HAS BEEN MADE ALIVE SPIRITUALLY, can also die spiritually. Spiritual death, is just as real as physical death. God Bless New Creature |
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4 | once saved, always saved? | Col 1:13 | Reformer Joe | 75873 | ||
'This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn" but whether it can sicken and die.' But most advocates of the loss of salvation argue that one theoretically can be born again hundreds of of times during one's physical lifetime. I see no substantive biblical support that one can keep losing their salvation and keep getting it back again. The Hebrews passages that are often cited mitigate against this idea: "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" --Hebrews 10:26-29 --Joe! |
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5 | once saved, always saved? | Col 1:13 | New Creature | 75875 | ||
Joe I am not one of those advocates that attempt to argue that one can be born again and again. As you stated concerning the passages in Hebrews indeed do mitigate against that idea. I agree. I personally believe that we are made spiritually alive only once. And that it is possible for such a person to die a spiritual death only once. Nevertheless spiritual death is just as real as physical death. God Bless New Creature |
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