Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154124 | ||
Hello Wild Olive Shoot, Pardon my tardy response but other matters required attention. You wrote: “…you used the writings of Reitzenstein, Philos and Celsus to support and uphold your view of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, am I mistaken on that point? My friend, even if what they claim is truth, the source of it is still evil, as their claims and teachings and lives were and are contrary to the Word of God.” Let us take this line by line: (1) As to Philo’s quote: “The best (ecstasy) of all is a divinely-infused rapture and 'mania,' to which the race of the prophets is subject.... The wise man is a sounding instrument of God's voice, being struck and played upon invisibly by Him.... As long as our mind still shines (is active)...we are not possessed (by God)...but ... when the divine light shines, the human light sets.... The prophet ... is passive, and another (God) makes use of his vocal organs.” This Philo observes of one that is filled with the Spirit of God and prophesies. (2) As to quoting Celsus’ : (the entire quote is offered here). Being a non-believer, this is what he observed of the early Christians. “There are many who, although of no name, with the greatest facility and on the slightest occasion, whether within or without temples, assume the motions and gestures of inspired persons; while others do it in cities or among armies, for the purpose of attracting attention and exciting surprise. These are accustomed to say, each for himself, 'I am God; I am the Son of God; or, I am the Divine Spirit; I have come because the world is perishing, and you, O men, are perishing for your iniquities. But I wish to save you, and you shall see me returning again with heavenly power. Blessed is he who now does me homage. On all the rest I will send down eternal fire, both on cities and on countries. And those who know not the punishments which await. them shall repent and grieve in vain; while those who are faithful to me I will preserve eternally.'" Then he goes on to say: "To these promises are added strange, fanatical, and quite unintelligible words, of which no rational person can find the meaning: for so dark are they, as to have no meaning at all; but they give occasion to every fool or impostor to apply them to suit his own purposes.” Though he did not understand the happenings, his observations are that of Christians filled with the Holy Ghost preaching and speaking in tongues. Even though he was not of the church, what he observes is supporting Biblical accuracies of the Corinthian epistle. (3) “of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit” I never stated "will endure"; I stated "similar to". (4) My desire was not to judge good and evil but to compare historically what was observed in those days of the early church. Many historians have been most valuable in their views to those times. I do not praise these men nor do I condemn them but my eyes can’t see what they saw, thus by reading about times of the past, to me, is most helpful in understanding. If what they say conflicts with Scripture, the Holy Spirit witnesses the falsehood. If what they say supports the Scriptures, all to the better. These men are dead and in the hands of God but their experiences are still valuable, historically. Just as we read about some of the good-guys and bad-guys in the Old Testament; they are all written in history for us to learn. There is something to learn in everybody. If we are grounded and our roots have taken deep hold upon the Truth, the readings of historical documents, either of a believer or an unbeliever (insert the history textbooks of our schools here), in no way tarnishes the Word of God to us. In another post you say (pertaining to Celsus): “… thought Jesus was no more than a bastard … who acquired certain magical powers…”, even the Pharisees in the Bible voiced this, John 8:19, John 8:48. So, lastly, if one would read again my first post, it was offered for the reader to “compare” what was said by these people for a historical view as to a "state" of one being in the Spirit. by Grace, eklektos |
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2 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Hunting | 154165 | ||
I'm new to this site and was interested in this posting on toungues. I'm sure the person who asked the question must be totally confused. I'm a pentecostal and our church doctrine supports speaking in tounges by way of baptism in the Holy Spirit. I can hear my pastor say, "God is the same yesterday today and forever." Meaning that all of the spiritual gifts are still available to us if God is willing to bless us with them. I consider this an optimistic outlook on the word of God. 1 Corinthians 14 39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40Let all things be done decently and in order. Sometimes when the Holy Spirit moves within me I pray in church and whisper in toungues. I don't like to draw attention to myself and I have found that only when I am alone praying and being intimate with the Lord, have I ever received a true interpretation from God. I would encourage Kennyitis to remember that God knows your heart, and he sees you reaching out to him because you desire to be deep with him. It's commendable that we have this forum to dig so deep into the doctrines, it appears to me that the more intellectual folks are absolutely working within the spiritual gifts that God blessed them with. Kenny, it's always wise to test the spirits, but remember, you have to read God's word yourself and ask for wisdom. Take responsibility for the understanding God reveals to you. That's the most sensible way I know of to test the spirits. You are in Christ and you are a new creation. You can ask the folks on this website, but in the end, your final conclusion on the matter is between you and God. Love, Hunting PS...by the way, my poodle's name is Hunter, and I was trying to use his name on this website, but the server would only allow Hunting. |
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3 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154166 | ||
Hello Hunting, It truly is refreshing to hear that the Spirit is working freely in others. For we are told not to quench the Spirit (1 Th 5:19). Yes, God is willing to bless us with these gifts and we should be willing to use them. In 1 Co 13, the raw, basic, total concept and context is Paul talking about how that love is eternal. Love, prophesies, tongues and knowledge are compared to this world and the next world. In this world we have all these things but when the "perfect comes" (1 Co 13:10) we will no longer need these gifts of the Spirit for we will see and know all things clearly but love will still exist. There is not a drop of instruction that prophecies, tongues or knowledge are to cease in this world. 1 Co 3:9 "For we know in part", true. We are still bound to earth. For if we knew all knowledge this forum would be useless and debates and discussions would not be necessary. When the "perfect comes", all this will pass away but not love. 1 Co 3:9 "and we prophesy in part", true. Because we know in part. When the "perfect comes", all this will pass away but not love. 1Co 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly", because we are bound to earth, but then (when the perfect comes) face to face (truly being in the presence of the Lord), the limits of this earthly boundary will disappear, but not love. "now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known", again the "but then" references to the heavenly future. All these things will pass away but not love. Hunting is a good name also; keep hunting in the Word of God. You linked your response to me and I am responding. You might want to link a response to Kennyittis so he may get an email and your uplifting words also. by Grace, eklektos |
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4 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Searcher56 | 154175 | ||
eklektos, God's day to you, ... prophesy and knowledge will cease differently than tongues. The latter is (was) not affected by the perfect coming. Searcher |
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5 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154177 | ||
Hello Searcher56, You wrote: "... prophesy and knowledge will cease differently than tongues. The latter is (was) not affected by the perfect coming." To respond to your comment with understanding, the following two items would need to be clarified first. What will make these cease differently? And could you explain what "is(was)" indicates? by Grace, eklektos |
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