Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154046 | ||
Hello Wild Olive Seed, As was told BradK, these were used as a comparison or a similitude. I do hope that you can see this but if you are having a hard time understanding, possibly if you re-read all the posts you might see that the main ingredient is the working of the Holy Spirit and that Philo and Celsus has nothing to do with it. They are only put there for information and study. by Grace, eklektos |
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2 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154049 | ||
In my opinion, you used the writings of Reitzenstein, Philos and Celsus to support and uphold your view of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, am I mistaken on that point? My friend, even if what they claim is truth, the source of it is still evil, as their claims and teachings and lives were and are contrary to the Word of God. It would be similar in practice mind you, of what Paul experienced with the slave girl in Acts 16:16-18. Evil, in all cases, corrupts the truth. “Satan, though the father of lies, will declare the most important truths, when he can thereby serve his purposes. But much mischief is done to the real servants of Christ, by unholy and false preachers of the gospel, who are confounded with them by careless observers.” – Matthew Henry However, we know that those you quoted speak not the truth and when you use them and their reasoning to support your position, your witness is corrupt, no matter how true you perceive it to be. It would serve everyone better if you would stick to using Biblical evidence in support of a particular position and extra-biblical support from persons known or proven as being of God, those whose teachings are aligned with God’s Word. Your “main ingredient” means nothing when supported and upheld by un-godly reasoning. And thank you, but I don’t think it is necessary for any of us, the need to “study” Philo and Celsus. And bear in mind, when you use their positions to uphold any teaching, you give credit to and condone what they say as being factual. Just a word of caution I guess. WOS |
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3 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154124 | ||
Hello Wild Olive Shoot, Pardon my tardy response but other matters required attention. You wrote: “…you used the writings of Reitzenstein, Philos and Celsus to support and uphold your view of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, am I mistaken on that point? My friend, even if what they claim is truth, the source of it is still evil, as their claims and teachings and lives were and are contrary to the Word of God.” Let us take this line by line: (1) As to Philo’s quote: “The best (ecstasy) of all is a divinely-infused rapture and 'mania,' to which the race of the prophets is subject.... The wise man is a sounding instrument of God's voice, being struck and played upon invisibly by Him.... As long as our mind still shines (is active)...we are not possessed (by God)...but ... when the divine light shines, the human light sets.... The prophet ... is passive, and another (God) makes use of his vocal organs.” This Philo observes of one that is filled with the Spirit of God and prophesies. (2) As to quoting Celsus’ : (the entire quote is offered here). Being a non-believer, this is what he observed of the early Christians. “There are many who, although of no name, with the greatest facility and on the slightest occasion, whether within or without temples, assume the motions and gestures of inspired persons; while others do it in cities or among armies, for the purpose of attracting attention and exciting surprise. These are accustomed to say, each for himself, 'I am God; I am the Son of God; or, I am the Divine Spirit; I have come because the world is perishing, and you, O men, are perishing for your iniquities. But I wish to save you, and you shall see me returning again with heavenly power. Blessed is he who now does me homage. On all the rest I will send down eternal fire, both on cities and on countries. And those who know not the punishments which await. them shall repent and grieve in vain; while those who are faithful to me I will preserve eternally.'" Then he goes on to say: "To these promises are added strange, fanatical, and quite unintelligible words, of which no rational person can find the meaning: for so dark are they, as to have no meaning at all; but they give occasion to every fool or impostor to apply them to suit his own purposes.” Though he did not understand the happenings, his observations are that of Christians filled with the Holy Ghost preaching and speaking in tongues. Even though he was not of the church, what he observes is supporting Biblical accuracies of the Corinthian epistle. (3) “of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit” I never stated "will endure"; I stated "similar to". (4) My desire was not to judge good and evil but to compare historically what was observed in those days of the early church. Many historians have been most valuable in their views to those times. I do not praise these men nor do I condemn them but my eyes can’t see what they saw, thus by reading about times of the past, to me, is most helpful in understanding. If what they say conflicts with Scripture, the Holy Spirit witnesses the falsehood. If what they say supports the Scriptures, all to the better. These men are dead and in the hands of God but their experiences are still valuable, historically. Just as we read about some of the good-guys and bad-guys in the Old Testament; they are all written in history for us to learn. There is something to learn in everybody. If we are grounded and our roots have taken deep hold upon the Truth, the readings of historical documents, either of a believer or an unbeliever (insert the history textbooks of our schools here), in no way tarnishes the Word of God to us. In another post you say (pertaining to Celsus): “… thought Jesus was no more than a bastard … who acquired certain magical powers…”, even the Pharisees in the Bible voiced this, John 8:19, John 8:48. So, lastly, if one would read again my first post, it was offered for the reader to “compare” what was said by these people for a historical view as to a "state" of one being in the Spirit. by Grace, eklektos |
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4 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154150 | ||
I stand by my assessment of what you placed in type on this forum and pray that you will see how quoting those you did, can be harmful and what you posted did not, from an entirely Christian standpoint, uphold the truths of God’s word, simply based on their origin. Far be it from me to allow myself to continue in an unproductive debate or discussion, so I'll end my participation at this point and look forward to discussing another topic with you in the future. Christ be with you. WOS |
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