Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154004 | ||
Hello BradK, Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English Hermetic HERMET'IC HERMET'ICAL, a. [Gr. Mercury, the fabled inventor of chimistry.] 1. Designating chimistry; chimical; as the hermetic art. 2. Designating that species of philosophy which pretends to solve and explain all the phenomena of nature from the three chimical principles, salt, sulphur and mercury; as the hermetic philosophy. 3. Designating the system which explains the causes of diseases and the operations of medicine, on the principles of the hermetical philosophy, and particularly on the system of an alkali and acid; as hermetical physic or medicine. 4. Perfectly close, so that no air, gas, or spirit can escape; as a hermetic seal. The hermetic seal is formed by heating the neck of a vessel till it is soft,and then twisting it, till the aperture or passage is accurately closed. Hermetic books, books of the Egyptians which treat of astrology. Books which treat of universal principles, of the nature and orders of celestial beings, of medicine and other topics. -- end of my dictionary -- Observe, your information says the teachings are attributed to Hermes and my dictionary it is Mercury, the fabled inventor of chemistry and yours does not mention universal principles. This is why when anyone talks about Scripture and they are using theological wording we need to find out exactly what they mean by the same word. For some relate hermeticism to the occult and to magic and others relate it to the natural order and universal principles. The Biblical connection I was making was to a previous note (ID 153981) that referenced Reitzenstein, “Poimandres” which has to do with some magic. But the context of that specific paragraph was describing the 'state' one can get in when in the Spirit. That it is similar to being 'in the Spirit' as the Scriptures I cited to 'Wild Olive Root', (Rev 4:1 and 2 Co 12:2, 4) corresponded to that type or similarity of state. Does this clear things up for you? by Grace, eklektos |
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2 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154036 | ||
Your answer may clear things up for some, but I must confess, it infuriates me to no end. The below is taken from Hermetic web-sites. Tell me, which of this, if any, is Biblical? I’ll have you know, not once in the sites I searched did I see reference to Christ as our Lord and Savior. So I ask you, is he yours? If your answer is in the affirmative then I pray you’ll rethink your position on Hermeticism. WOS From: www.hermetics.com Webster dictionary: her.met.ic also her.met.i.cal adj NL hermeticus, fr. Hermet-, Hermes Trismegistus (1605) 1 often cap a: of or relating to the Gnostic writings or teachings arising in the first three centuries a.d. and attributed to Hermes Trismegistus b: relating to or characterized by occultism or abstruseness: recondite 2 fr. the belief that Hermes Trismegistus invented a magic seal to keep vessels airtight a: airtight seal b: impervious to external influence trapped inside the military machine -Jack Newfield c: recluse, solitary leads a life - her.met.i.cal.ly adv Oxford illustrated Dictionary second edition: Hermes: (-z). 1. (Greek Myth) Son of Zeus and Maia; represented as messenger of the gods, god of science, commerce, eloquence, etc., identified by the Romans with Mercury, and represented as a youth with winged rod(caduceus), brimmed hat (petasus), and winged shoes (talaria). 2.Trismegistus (thrice-greatest), name given by Neo-Platonists etc. to Egyptian god Thoth, regarded as author of all mysterious doctrines and esp. of secret of alchemy. From: www.hermetics.org Essentially, Hermeticism is the ancient philosophy, theory and practice of the inner secrets of man, nature and spirit. It's origins are lost in the mists of prehistory. Its revivals in the Hellenistic, Renaissance and modern times have often been pale reflections of its real nature. Though much of its records are lost, it has re-risen from the flames like the Phoenix under many different guises. Fragments of this great primal teaching are distributed throughout the world. Hermes Trismegistus, its legendary founder, has been called the originator of writing, the sciences and arts, as well as the patron of esoteric teachings and magick. He has been equated as one and the same as Tehuti, Thoth, Enoch and Idris, among many other spiritual teachers at the dawn of human history. Hermetic teachings have been transmitted through a long line of masters and teachers throughout the ages. Its survival throughout the ages has been accomplished by means of guardians of the holy mysteries. These guardians have emerged from time to time to disclose precious fragments of these timeless teachings. Voltaire was of the opinion that Abraham descended from some of the numerous Brahman priests who left India to spread their teachings throughout the world; and in support of his thesis he presented the following elements: the similarity of names and the fact that the city of Ur, land of the patriarchs, was near the border of Persia, the road to India, where that Brahman had been born. HERMETICISM is the scientific, philosophic, religious and social synthesis of the past, present and will be, without doubt, that of the future. The theologian, philosopher,the savant, doctor, moralist or sociologist should make the effort to study occultism where alone they will find together with the best solutions to theological, cosmological, anthropological and sociological enigmas, as well as the elements which will revivify their current knowledge, and how to regenerate the human body and soul and of the whole of society. As for those who are tormented by the deeply anguishing problem of life after death, they will be soon understand through exposure to our doctrines, we hope, the rational certitude through experience of the immortality of their conscious and spiritual principle, they will understand that Divinity wants the best for all its creatures, and that the Heaven, Purgatory and Hell of the naïve theologians are nothing more than the physical and moral situations in which our soul finds itself throughout the course of its eternal career . They will know that Reincarnation, taught in the ancient mystery schools, just as it was in the original Christian Church, and in modern initiations is one of the multiple means employed by the Sovereign Bounty (or Supreme Good), in order to hasten the animical, intellectual and spiritual evolution of each one of us. They will see that man works out unceasingly through the conditions, which must preside over successive lives in time and space. They will recognize that human beings are all united to each other not only in actions, but also in words and above all in thought. It is by these means that they will prepare consciously the Coming on Earth of the True Fraternity and of the Reign of the Holy Spirit, or of Science allied to Faith, of Reason united to Intuition, a lasting and celestial fusion which the Feast of Pentecost symbolizes so well." |
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3 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154037 | ||
Hello Wild Olive Shoot, Before this thread gets off the track maybe we should go back to your original post ID 153983. You wrote: "Hermeticism is biblical???" Just what part of my original posts did you think or get the idea that it was Heremtical? My Post ID#'s: Part 1 153982 Part 2 153981 Part 3 153980 The dictionary I use is on the Cornerstone Baptist Temple Website. http://www.cbtministries.org/resources/webster1828.htm Just type in 'hermetical'. by Grace, eklektos |
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4 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154041 | ||
Well of course it was your quote… “” The Greek papyri furnish us with an abundance of magical formulas couched in unintelligible terms (e.g. Pap. Lond., 121, “Iao, eloai, marmarachada, menepho, mermai, ieor, aeio, erephie, pherephio,” etc.), which are not infrequently connected with an ecstatic state (e.g. Reitzenstein, “Poimandres”, 53-58).” Poimandres is of course the most famous of the Hermetic writings, so I read. And then your subsequent follow up that defended the position and attempted to lessen the severity while condoning such a position with… “Hermeticism is that which treats some universal principles. Hermeticism does not always indicate sorcery. Only in today's culture is this term held to its worst degree.” You also go on to quote Philo and then even Celsus, who by the way, thought Jesus was no more than a bastard from his mothers adulteress affair with a soldier, who acquired certain magical powers while in Egypt and used them to project Himself as being God. Why would you even use writings from those individuals in attempting to “Biblically” support the gift of tongues or anything else for that matter? WOS |
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5 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154046 | ||
Hello Wild Olive Seed, As was told BradK, these were used as a comparison or a similitude. I do hope that you can see this but if you are having a hard time understanding, possibly if you re-read all the posts you might see that the main ingredient is the working of the Holy Spirit and that Philo and Celsus has nothing to do with it. They are only put there for information and study. by Grace, eklektos |
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6 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154049 | ||
In my opinion, you used the writings of Reitzenstein, Philos and Celsus to support and uphold your view of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, am I mistaken on that point? My friend, even if what they claim is truth, the source of it is still evil, as their claims and teachings and lives were and are contrary to the Word of God. It would be similar in practice mind you, of what Paul experienced with the slave girl in Acts 16:16-18. Evil, in all cases, corrupts the truth. “Satan, though the father of lies, will declare the most important truths, when he can thereby serve his purposes. But much mischief is done to the real servants of Christ, by unholy and false preachers of the gospel, who are confounded with them by careless observers.” – Matthew Henry However, we know that those you quoted speak not the truth and when you use them and their reasoning to support your position, your witness is corrupt, no matter how true you perceive it to be. It would serve everyone better if you would stick to using Biblical evidence in support of a particular position and extra-biblical support from persons known or proven as being of God, those whose teachings are aligned with God’s Word. Your “main ingredient” means nothing when supported and upheld by un-godly reasoning. And thank you, but I don’t think it is necessary for any of us, the need to “study” Philo and Celsus. And bear in mind, when you use their positions to uphold any teaching, you give credit to and condone what they say as being factual. Just a word of caution I guess. WOS |
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7 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | eklektos | 154124 | ||
Hello Wild Olive Shoot, Pardon my tardy response but other matters required attention. You wrote: “…you used the writings of Reitzenstein, Philos and Celsus to support and uphold your view of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, am I mistaken on that point? My friend, even if what they claim is truth, the source of it is still evil, as their claims and teachings and lives were and are contrary to the Word of God.” Let us take this line by line: (1) As to Philo’s quote: “The best (ecstasy) of all is a divinely-infused rapture and 'mania,' to which the race of the prophets is subject.... The wise man is a sounding instrument of God's voice, being struck and played upon invisibly by Him.... As long as our mind still shines (is active)...we are not possessed (by God)...but ... when the divine light shines, the human light sets.... The prophet ... is passive, and another (God) makes use of his vocal organs.” This Philo observes of one that is filled with the Spirit of God and prophesies. (2) As to quoting Celsus’ : (the entire quote is offered here). Being a non-believer, this is what he observed of the early Christians. “There are many who, although of no name, with the greatest facility and on the slightest occasion, whether within or without temples, assume the motions and gestures of inspired persons; while others do it in cities or among armies, for the purpose of attracting attention and exciting surprise. These are accustomed to say, each for himself, 'I am God; I am the Son of God; or, I am the Divine Spirit; I have come because the world is perishing, and you, O men, are perishing for your iniquities. But I wish to save you, and you shall see me returning again with heavenly power. Blessed is he who now does me homage. On all the rest I will send down eternal fire, both on cities and on countries. And those who know not the punishments which await. them shall repent and grieve in vain; while those who are faithful to me I will preserve eternally.'" Then he goes on to say: "To these promises are added strange, fanatical, and quite unintelligible words, of which no rational person can find the meaning: for so dark are they, as to have no meaning at all; but they give occasion to every fool or impostor to apply them to suit his own purposes.” Though he did not understand the happenings, his observations are that of Christians filled with the Holy Ghost preaching and speaking in tongues. Even though he was not of the church, what he observes is supporting Biblical accuracies of the Corinthian epistle. (3) “of what one will endure while under the influence of the Holy Spirit” I never stated "will endure"; I stated "similar to". (4) My desire was not to judge good and evil but to compare historically what was observed in those days of the early church. Many historians have been most valuable in their views to those times. I do not praise these men nor do I condemn them but my eyes can’t see what they saw, thus by reading about times of the past, to me, is most helpful in understanding. If what they say conflicts with Scripture, the Holy Spirit witnesses the falsehood. If what they say supports the Scriptures, all to the better. These men are dead and in the hands of God but their experiences are still valuable, historically. Just as we read about some of the good-guys and bad-guys in the Old Testament; they are all written in history for us to learn. There is something to learn in everybody. If we are grounded and our roots have taken deep hold upon the Truth, the readings of historical documents, either of a believer or an unbeliever (insert the history textbooks of our schools here), in no way tarnishes the Word of God to us. In another post you say (pertaining to Celsus): “… thought Jesus was no more than a bastard … who acquired certain magical powers…”, even the Pharisees in the Bible voiced this, John 8:19, John 8:48. So, lastly, if one would read again my first post, it was offered for the reader to “compare” what was said by these people for a historical view as to a "state" of one being in the Spirit. by Grace, eklektos |
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8 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154150 | ||
I stand by my assessment of what you placed in type on this forum and pray that you will see how quoting those you did, can be harmful and what you posted did not, from an entirely Christian standpoint, uphold the truths of God’s word, simply based on their origin. Far be it from me to allow myself to continue in an unproductive debate or discussion, so I'll end my participation at this point and look forward to discussing another topic with you in the future. Christ be with you. WOS |
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