Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Beja | 223861 | ||
Godinus, You've written so much I think its a little beyond me to respond to the entirety of it as it deserves, as it would require a very massive post. However, let me show a few examples of the assumptions and poor exegesis that characterises your whole post. You said, "In order for this statement of yours to be true and fill the position of their works like you are saying then the act of baptism itself would have to come from their own head that baptism was something they could do in order to gain salvation but as you can see it was a mandate to the disciples from Jesus Himself. By that mandate it is showing that baptism is not in the realm of - - their works." So anything Jesus commands us to do becomes not a work? Jesus commanded a great many things including to do all that the pharisees commanded because they sat in the seat of Moses, and to be perfect as our Father in heaven was perfect. So now because Christ commanded them I can validly say that this is how you must be saved and I'm completely immune to the accusation that I'm preaching a works rightousness? Where are you getting such a notion from? The truth is that Christ did command us to do some works, but that does not mean everything he commanded us is the means of salvation. Next, the rest being spoken of in Hebrews four seems to be a future rest, not at all speaking of a rest from the law currently in Christ. The verse in Titus never even mentions baptism! On the contrary it says "by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit." The regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit is being called a washing. In fact this is what we affirm. I'm still not sure how you are trying to connect this verse to the ones in Ephesians. Are you suggesting that the works mentioned in Ephesians 2:10 is referring to the work of baptism? If so I am baffled as to how you can come to this conclusion since it lacks any basis whatsoever. You are just saying a great deal of unfounded things then dressing them in some very missaplied scriptures. Also this seems to be a very far cry from you encouraging me to just let everybody believe what they desire and that doctrine is devisive so lets just let people preach baptismal regeneration. In Christ, Beja |
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2 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223870 | ||
Beja Do you remember my first post on this subject? "Excuse me but haven't these opinions everyone is voicing been argued for over 500 years don't they all come down to each one's own doctrinal beliefs?" You then made mention of "a divisive search for truth" that's sort of an oxymoron isn't it? Although I can agree to a certain extent there can be a divisive search for truth but only if the persons involved are starting from the same point of view. "unless two be agreed how can they walk together." Or with the same objective in view such as the clarifying of a scripture for better understanding of their mutually held doctrine. But if they are coming from diametrically opposed points of view it becomes what I have said where both parties come to the table with the truth in their possession with the viewpoint that the other doctrine is categorically wrong. So you see it isn't a search for truth as much as it is an espousing of the truth one already professes. Taking into account the discussion the four of us have had my original post was correct. There have been three that agree on a single doctrine "saved by grace through faith" and the discussion that has ensued has only been to show the forth as being categorically wrong. That is by definition "already possessing the truth". There have been no exchange of ideas or even a mutual investigarion into the others beliefs in a search for truth there has only been one in depth viewpoint expressed thus far where all the other posts have been nothing but an overwhelming condemnation of said belief. In order for this Utopian discussion to take place there has to be a mutual questioning of each of the opposing beliefs a willingness on both sides to say "I was wrong". But as you know the difficulty with this is that all beliefs are interlocked making it neigh unto impossible to lay down just one belief without destroying the integrity of the whole belief structure. But without a true openness there cannot be a search for truth between two opposing sides on a question. In illustration - - A person comes to Christ being without any belief structure he starts attending a church where he is indoctrinated into the belief "a person can lose their salvation" from that point on everything that he reads will reinforce that belief permeating everything he believes thereby building a belief structure where everything is interdependent on everything else. Knowing that "we cannot lose our salvation" how can we ever hope to show him his error we would have to tear down his whole house. Don't you think he thinks he is already following the truth and you are wrong? My point is you can't search for something if you already know where it is can you? To show you there are no hard feelings I do fully agree with at least one of your statements:-) "lets just let people preach baptismal regeneration." Have yourself a good Lords day Godinus |
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3 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Beja | 223871 | ||
Godinus, You've misread me on two points. The divisive search for truth isn't the utopian idea you've understood me to say. Also, a mistaken belief is not a "truth." If there are two contradictory statements then at least one of them is wrong. So I believe with two contradictory statements we can seek to show that one is contrary to scripture, if not both. Second, when I said "lets just let people preach baptismal regeneration" I was in no way suggesting we do that, but rather quoting the spirit of one of your previous posts. If you are suggesting that baptism is the means of our salvation then I fully believe this is a heresy and it should not be preached. So I apologize for that confusion. In Christ, Beja |
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