Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 187852 | ||
Ps25, Are you familiar with or a scholar of NT Greek? 1. Apparently, you have not read my note correctly regarding Ep 1:13. The main point is that the verse does not read that God Spirit-sealed us "before the foundation of the world." That is you interpretation, which goes beyond the text. As I stated, "A simple reading of the verse shows the sealing occurs after hearing and believing." Your contention that "the scriptures are clear that it was done 'and sealed' in our case, thousands of years before we were ever born" has no support in either vs.13 or vs.4 of Ep 1. The phrase in v.4, "chosen before the world was made" (TEV), contemplates (1) believers, not specific individuals, and (2) within the context of purpose, sealing. There is no reference to sealing. 2. You say, "what God 'seals' cannot be 'unsealed'." Well then, it should also hold true to say, "What God 'grafts in' cannot be 'ungrafted'," which flies right smack against Romans 11. 3. That "that no man has ever sought God on his own," is off the subject and has no bearing on this issue. 4. You're appeals to logic seem to be attemps to squeeze a round peg into a square hole, which effectively results in illogical jumps to conclusions that have no bearing on how the text in question actually reads. 5. With all due respect, if this discussion is to go forward, the first three points in my note #187838 need to be answered, which you totally ignored, having gone through some other unrelated avenue of argument. |
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2 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Psalm 25 | 187856 | ||
Here's some additional info. A conversation between two pastors: Matt: Can we lose our salvation? Sam: I believe we can Matt: What must you do to keep it then? Sam: Believe. Matt: Phil. 1:29 says that God grants that we believe. John 1:12 we are born again NOT of our own wills. John 6:28-29 our believing is God's work. So... it is up to God then, it would seem. Sam: That is true and Hebrews say that if we willing sin after knowing the truth we no longer have an intercessor in heaven Matt: Have you ever sinned willfully after being a Christian? Sam: I am not speaking of one sin, I am speaking of turning away from God. Matt: That isn't what Heb. 10:26 says. But, if you can lose your salvation, then what do you do with John 10:28 where Jesus says he gives eternal life and the sheep will NEVER perish? And also 1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us." You are teaching that we keep our salvation by works. Sam: What about those who endure to the end will be saved Matt: That is Matt. 24:13. That is speaking of the end times tribulation era... not of justification. If you can lose your salvation, then what do you do with John 10:28 where Jesus says He gives eternal life and the sheep will NEVER perish? If you can lose it then Jesus should have said, "and they may perish..." or "they CAN perish." But he said, THEY WILL NEVER PERISH. So, will they never perish? Or can they? Sam: Believing is a present tense word and you must believe till the end Matt: Yes. But can you answer the questions above? Sam: And belief requires a response Matt: Can you answer the question regarding John 10:28? Sam: I believe we are God's sheep if we follow him. Matt: Wrong. We follow him BECAUSE we are His sheep. You have it wrong. This is a common error in Christianity in America. It amounts to salvation by works. Sam: He says his sheep know his voice and follow Matt: Yes...and they will NEVER PERISH, right? Sam: There are 2 schools of thought on this subject and I am not Calvinistic. But I do not want to argue about it Matt: You don't have to be calvinistic. Jesus said they will never perish. 1 John 2:19 says, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us." If someone leaves the faith it is because they never were saved. We endure because we ARE saved...we don't become or stay saved by our works. Sam: So you are saying that if someone accepts Jesus as his savior and feels the need to repent and follows Jesus for many years and then for some reason he turns a walks in darkness that in the end he is still forgiven. Matt: I didn't say that. The Bible says in 1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us." Sam: You are saying it is impossible for a true christen to turn Matt: To turn??? Not sure what you mean. Sam: Away form God, to reject him Matt: No, a true Christian cannot. Here is why. 2 Cor. 5:17, "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." Sam: I am saying that when we believe that we are justified and from that point on we walk with Jesus in belief and we walk each day we pick up our cross and continue walking with him If we stop walking and turn from God and no longer trust in him as our savior then we will not enter heaven. Matt: Right... because...1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us." THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED if they were really Christians to begin with. Matt: Now a question for you. Are you saying that the Spirit begins the work of salvation in us and that we work it out and complete it by remaining faithful? That IS what you are saying, that we get saved and keep it by the effort of our works, right? Check this out. Gal. 3:1-3, "You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Sam: I would say that there are very few people who ever have lived that can say they did Matt: You still have not answered John 10:28. Sam: Your teaching is a new teaching Matt: No. Jesus taught it. He said those with eternal life will NEVER PERISH. |
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3 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 187861 | ||
We need to resolve the issue of Ep 1:13 as to what it actually reads. You're just clouding the issue with what you call "proof-texts" and conversations between pastors you may have overheard. | ||||||
4 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Psalm 25 | 187979 | ||
Lookin, This says it all, by your own words: No formal Bible training...pretty much studied the Bible on my own. I am not a member of any church or denomination at this time. |
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5 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Lookn4ward2Heavn | 187990 | ||
Just out of curiousity...what do my own words say? | ||||||