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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Imputed Righteousness | Rom 4:6 | ChristLifer2001 | 52908 | ||
Joe, !It is talking about our glorification, a separate work of God from our justification. We are already spiritually glorified. Rom 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also GLORIFIED - past tense. !While the righteousness given to us is not based on OUR works, it is inseparable connected to the works of Christ. Amen! !There is no such thing as INTRINSIC righteousness - our own righteousness - apart from obedience to God. Our righteousness comes as a gift from God to us. As long as it is not yours, it does you no good whatsoever. But, as a gift to you, not because of obedience, but because of faith, it is yours. If you think that you are righteous in God's sight depending on your obedience to the Law or "Christian" principles, then you still don't understand righteousness or even Luther's revelation. He recognized that we receive God's righteous SOLELY by faith, apart from our works, before or after salvation. !Why do you fail to address the tense issue I raised in the verse? Joe, I did address the tense, all who have been spiritually born again in Christ since Paul wrote these verses have been made righteous. Should the Lord tarry, all who place their faith and trust in Christ alone will be made righteous the moment they do so. !You are right; it is indeed that simple. And I have HIS righteousness as a gift while at the same time I have not been MADE righteous myself. Then you don't understand the gift. You are saying that you have received the gift of righteousness but that it had done you no good whatsoever because you are not righteous. If I gift you a gift of 100 dollars, then you have 100 dollars. You did not earn it. It originally belonged to me. But I gave it to you as a gift. It is now your money and you would be foolish to not accept it and appropriate it. This is what you are saying about Christ's righteousness that has been given to you. You claim to have already accepted it, but you claim that it is not yours or that you won't open it until you die. What a pity. !What I am denying is that Christ's righteousness makes US righteous. That's too bad, Joe. You obviously don't understand either justification or sanctification because you don't understand your union with Christ. !a foreign righteousness from God. Yes, it is a foreign righteousness. But it is given to us. It then becomes ours in Christ. You still don't understand righteousness, my friend. It is not the absence of sin, it is a positive charateristic of God. Christ did not become righteous because He didn't sin. He was - and is - God. God is righteous. If we are every going to be, we must accept it as a gift from Him to us. !What Paul is talking about here is our OBEDIENCE, our sanctification. Then, brother, you will never be sanctified because you have made works a part of the process. This, despite that fact that 1 Cor 1:2 says that the Corinthians HAVE BEEN sanctified - in spite of their sinful actions - and 1 Cor 6:11 says that we WERE sanctified and Heb 10:10,29 both say that our sanctification is past tense because of Christ's blood. Praying you'll rest in Christ's completed work on your behalf. Your bro, ChristLifer2001 |
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2 | Imputed Righteousness | Rom 4:6 | Reformer Joe | 52921 | ||
You wrote: "Then, brother, you will never be sanctified because you have made works a part of the process." Wrong again. Works ARE a part of the process of progressive sanctification. I know that these verses will most likely be ignored, but here goes: "For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification." --1 Thessalonians 4:3-7 I will let you look up the next verse on your own, since it addresses you. Santification in this life is by the grace of God, but tied to obedience, as we see the connection above. You still have failed to demonstrate how the spirit is exempt from 1 Thessalonians 5:23. "Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." --Hebrews 12:14 Oh, sanctification is something to be PURSUED. Rather than go on a long treatise on the three aspects of biblical aspects of sanctification (past, present, and future), I will point you to some Web sites that discuss it. I know your mind is made up despite logical, biblical arguments to the contrary, but here goes: http://www.markers.com/ink/aabbsanctif.htm http://www.rts.edu/quarterly/fall99/nicole.html http://www.webgrace.net/sancti.html This is not a view held by people of my Reformed views. I am sure that Tim the Arminian will agree with me on sanctification, and the last link above, being Dispensationalist in perspective, probably is closer to your own views in every way but this one. The fact is that you are not merely accusing me of misunderstanding justification and sanctification; you are being lofty enough to declare most of the greatest theologians in the last half-milennium to be misunderstanding the doctrines. Now in theory it is possible that you are right and EVERYONE on my side (including the Reformers of the church) missed completely, but what do you think the chances of that really are? This is why God has given us the church, by the way, to keep everything from being a subjective "free-for all." "Justification is an act of God’s free grace unto sinners, in which he pardoneth all their sins, accepteth and accounteth their persons righteous in his sight; not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but only for the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of Christ, by God imputed to them, and received by faith alone." --Westminster Larger Catechism, Answer to Question 70 "Sanctification is a work of God’s grace, whereby they whom God hath, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life." WLC, Answer to question 75 You wrote: "Praying you'll rest in Christ's completed work on your behalf." I pray that you will demonstrate your justification through faith alone by your self-sacrifice (Romans 12:1-2), pressing on (Philippians 3:12), striving (Philippians 1:27; Colossians 1:29), and making his calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10) by obeying His commandments (John 14:26). --Joe! |
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