Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | JRdoc | 61538 | ||
1. YOU SAID: “Dear John, “ John did not write this! -JRdoc, unless of course this is my good-bye letter to be kept from the forum… 2. YOU SAID: “that actually deal specifiically with the sovereignity of God WITHIN the Arminian perspective”….” That is not an idea held WITHIN the Arminian perspective.” So I cannot look at Scripture to assert the truth. The Arminian perspective is a philosophy. You can not begin with a false premise (philosophy) and end up with truth! Begin with a Scripture and lets examine that, but this “from the Arminian perspective” business, just because you assert it does not make it truth. State a specific Scripture. Let us look at the Greek or Hebrew. Let us discuss the Word of God and not a slide or the Dollar Store—though your illustrations were found faulty. 3. YOU SAID: “ Please remember that we are only talking about whether it is possible for God to be soverign in the Arminian perspective, thus it is not helpful to try to convince me to believe in the Calvinist perspective.” It is not possible “for God to be sovereign in the Arminian perspective” and since I cannot use Scripture, it is not possible to state the truth. Arminianism sees man as “partly” sovereign and in turn takes away from God’s total control (sovereignty). Again, I stressed in the original reply that C- does not deny a will, but at a different time and to a different degree than A- 4. YOU SAID: “For instance, in our town their is a store where everything costs 1 dollar. Now a parent could go to that store and lay a dollar bill on the counter and then tell their kid to go pick out any on thing in the store and the money on the counter will pay for it. The kid then actually does have freedom to choose whatever they want, but the parent’s “prophecy” will still come true when they bring it up to be paid for and the dollar bill is already there. This is an example of a time when a subject can be given both the FREEDOM and the ABILITY to make a choice while at the same time some future things will not change. Since God is all powerful, couldn’t He do the same thing” A. Yes, he will pick something that costs a dollar, but he would never select that which belongs to God: Rom 3:11 “There is NONE that UNDERSTANDETH, there is NONE that SEEKETH after God.” Or in this case NONE would SELECT God’s merchandise for he would not have a will to this disposition. The God of this world has blinded him so he could not see to make that selection.—SCRIPTURE!—2 Cor 4:4. B. Again, you assume the child is spiritually alive to make this choice when the Scripture affirms he is dead in trespasses and sin (Eph 2:1). He is dead he can not see or even walk to God’s shelf. C. You are assuming God is parent that only offers a “chance” at salvation and are making the offer a smorgasbord (The Dollar Store). The Scripture says: John 6: 40 And THIS IS THE WILL OF HIM that sent me, THAT EVERY ONE WHICH SEETH the Son, and BELIEVETH ON HIM [a gift], MAY [without a doubt, not just a chance] have everlasting life: and I WILL [without a doubt, not just a chance] raise him up at the last day. (chapter 17 of John has several other illustrations, et. al.). Jesus went after the 1 lost sheep (not goat), salvation is more than a “possibility,” it is God’s eternal “promise” to His elect. D. You fail to understand the “foreknowledge “ of God—meaning relational-ship knowledge (Gen 4:1; Rom 8—pro-ginosoko, yada). God has a relational-ship knowledge with His elect from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1) and has elected, predestined His choice (Rom 9). 5. YOU SAID: “Couldn’t He create a universe where humans have the FREEDOM and ABILITY to choose whether to love God or not, yet at the same time be able to determine several critical points along the way (including the end of time)? And if God had the ability to, at any point, take back over and dictate everything, then wouldn’t He still be completely in control? See you changed the sovereignty of God when you said “several critical points”, but not “all points—and all are critical” so you are asserting that God is only partly sovereign? The only way Arminianism may come close to proving its point is not to look at the Scripture. 6. YOU SAID: “Just because God chooses not to excersize His abilitiy to dictate everything, does that make Him cease to be supremely powerful?” Yes it does. Dan 4: 35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and HE DOETH ACCORDING TO HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and AMONG THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH: and NONE CAN STAY HIS HAND, or say unto him, What doest thou? |
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2 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | Hank | 61545 | ||
JRdoc: The Arminian perspective is a philosophy, is it? So what, pray tell, is Calvinism, the inerrant voice of God? --Hank | ||||||
3 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | JRdoc | 61554 | ||
Hank YOU SAID:"The Arminian perspective is a philosophy, is it? So what, pray tell, is Calvinism, the inerrant voice of God? --Hank" Man this place a time with "context." I was using the term "philosophy" in the "context" that we should not begin with a premise of human thought (i.e. "the Arminian perspective" the term used by its original poster), but Scripture (God's thought) and from that see the "Theology of God" and not the "Philosophy of Man." Please re-read the "context." Hank: One cannot begin the study of God's word from preconceived thoughts but only line upon line precept upon precept, from the Scripture itself. If you think Arminianism is more than philosophy, prove it. State a Scripture. Give your interpretation from the original language and lets go.....you choose... |
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4 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | Hank | 61563 | ||
JRdoc, don't try to turn the tables on me, sir or madam. You brought up the issue, I merely asked a question. The burden of proof is on you. Prove why Arminianism is a philosophy and Calvinism isn't. They're both "isms" and both had their genesis in the minds of two men. If you think Calvinism is the better choice, go with it. I couldn't care less. But I am disgusted with seeing Calvinism being lauded while Arminianism is being bashed as a mere philosophy. I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian (and don't try to convince me that I MUST be one or the other!). Though Calvinists and Arminians both may hold that their interpretations and theological systems are based on Scripture and I am not here to argue the merits of the claims of either, it is rather obvious that neither of them IS Scripture. --Hank | ||||||
5 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | Sir Pent | 61566 | ||
Personal Note ...................................... Dear Hank and JRdoc, I would ask that neither of you continue this discussion on this thread. I forsee this only enlarging again into the whole C and A debate. I am trying very hard to maintain a laser focus in this thread to discover if there can be consensus on one very specific point, and the two of you going back and forth about all the other related issues will only muddy the waters. |
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6 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | Hank | 61574 | ||
Sir Pent: Thank you and I most unequivocally agree in principle with your admonition. But I cannot help but revolt against the tactics that are being used and the inflammatory nature of these Calvinist-fueled debates. We are making a mockery of the purpose and aim of this forum and, what is by far the more important issue, we are not, in my honest opinion, doing much to glorify God or to promote Christian charity. Yes, I am genuinely angry and disgusted to see the turn that this forum has taken. It is going nowhere. --Hank | ||||||