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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | R, Can you Biblically justify actions? | Acts 20:28 | EdB | 135142 | ||
Reighnskye Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1; 1 Peter 2:13-17 In these three verses we are commanded to obey the laws of the land. Here in Florida for a pastor to legally marry someone a marriage license must exist and the Pastor must have said license in his hands and to sign such. Without that the Pastor would be breaking the law and the marriage would be nonexistent. I know you have said you didn’t care if the state considered the marriage legal or not. However your being short sighted. Let me give a few for instances. What happen if you had a life threatening situation that needed next of kin approval. your nonexistent wife possibly could be barred from participating in such decisions. If you were in a intensive care and the only family was allowed in again your wife could be barred. This is frequently the case in burns. And I know from seeing it first hand that a loved one was forced to watch from outside never being able to say a final farewell. If you died anything you owned could be claimed by other than you nonexistent wife. If you died your wife could be barred from even participating in the arrangements. Any surviving spouse and survivor benefits could be lost. If there was a child involved and something happened to you there is potential that your nonexistent wife could stop all visitation of your family and a legal court battle could happen. If your wife died there could be a legal battle over the child's custody. There is also the potential of your spouse leaving you and taking virtually everything and since there was no legal marriage contract there are conceivable loopholes that could be exploited. Again child custody battle could become long and nasty requiring you to first prove you were in fact the parent. I understand many of these things could be guarded against by carefully worded legal documents however could you, would you ever be sure to have all the bases covered? I understand what you trying to do. I don’t agree with it. I think you have a story that needs to be heard by the voting public and law makers. Possibly that is why God has you in the situation your in, to fight this situation. But I think you would be doing a disservice to yourself, your future spouse and to the letter of the law for you to proceed in a wedding without a license. I know I could not in good conscience preside of such a wedding. I too will join with Tim for you in prayer over this situation. EdB |
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2 | R, Can you Biblically justify actions? | Acts 20:28 | Reighnskye | 135147 | ||
EdB You have quoted the following verses: Romans 13 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. (NAS95) 1 Peter 2 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. (NAS95) Would this submission to government also extend to the genocide of native American Indians or the slavely of African Americans? You seem to be operating by the supposition that these scriptures are all-inclusive, in regard to any and all laws. But then again, church-ordained marriages are not illegal. Or are you suggesting that they are? Might you find it remotely possible that the government is capable of evil? In my own case, the penalties incurred by the government could cost my bodily organs or my life. Would I be a righteous servant of God, by sacrificing my blood upon the altar of state government? Are you suggesting that I play the hero to adjust the laws of the land, by valiant and energetic effort? Such an endeavor would likely go well beyond my natural lifespan, and a battle with the government has been contra-indicated to me by medical professionals. - You stated: "Here in Florida for a pastor to legally marry someone a marriage license must exist and the Pastor must have said license in his hands and to sign such. Without that the Pastor would be breaking the law and the marriage would be nonexistent." Pastors are not prohibited from engaging in marriage ceremonies that are not state-ordained, so I view your reference to legal contract marriages as not applicable in my situation. You have offered a great deal of unpleasant possibilities, of what could happen if a marriage is not bound by legal contract, and is merely church-ordained. And I suppose they would be fully applicable when addressing an otherwise healthy marriage couple. You may consider me to be short-sighted if I overlook these possibilities, but i suggest that the immediate future is much more crucial in this particular situation. In other words, all of these scenarios that you offer would become obsolete, if I were to die within the next three years, for lack of medical provisions. Further, the weight of medical financial responsibilities would break a potential marriage partner, and would result in immediate divorce with alimony dues. - I think inparticular of my close friend who is supplied with 900,000 dollars of life-sustaining medications per year. In the next 40 years, his medications will cost close to 40 million dollars. However, if he were to get a job making more than 12,000 dollars per year, his government medical coverage would be rescinded and he would die. Or if he were to get legally married, he would again automatically die. Would his death be good for a marriage? Would the removal of my bodily organs be productive in a marriage, with the wife paying the bill? Insurance carriers do not pay for pre-existing conditions, and the government does not provide medical funding for couples, wherein one spouse is gainfully employed and the other is not. And God forbid if I should fail to fall in love with a female millionaire. What then? Shall I cut off my parents bloodline, by failing to procreate? My brother can't have kids. EdB, I understand the legal concerns that you present, but I consider them nominal when the lifeblood of others is at stake. Thanks for the prayers. Meanwhile, I'll endeavor to fulfill the following scripture, with or without your support. - Genesis 2 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. (NAS95) - Blessings, Reighnskye |
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3 | R, Can you Biblically justify actions? | Acts 20:28 | EdB | 135155 | ||
Reighnskye You said church ordained marriages are not illegal. Do you know of any church that does marriages without a marriage license? In Florida the law clearly states a marriage license must be obtained and signed for the marriage to exist. Now if you want to call something outside this a marriage fine, but what your really after is a redefinition of marriage as defined by the law of the land. You said I suggest you play the hero and champion this cause but you said it could take your life time. Perhaps but if no one begins it will probably never change. You said no insurance polices accept existing medical conditions and that is simply not true. Many major employers have policies that cover a new employee and his family or an employees new spouse without any conditions on preexisting illness. In your discussion on this every time someone has presented a valid point you add another twist to the story. Such as your brother is infertile, etc. Frankly that tells me your not looking for an answer your trying to champion your case here. That is okay too. Look your in a lousy situation, I agree. The law doesn’t seem fair. I agree. You keep referring to Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. As God’s ideal for marriage. If you look closely it says nothing about the any church involvement either. If that is what you consider marriage fine. But again I remind you that is a redefinition of the term marriage as defined by the law of the land. You can call it anything you want but that does not make it a marriage. You said I offered some unpleasant scenarios. I wasn’t trying to paint a bad picture what I was trying to show you without a legally recognized marriage you forfeited all rights, protections, obligations and liabilities offered to a “married couple”. In fact you and your ‘wife’ would be nothing more than two single people. Also know if you live together for 7 years you could be declared common law. I’m not a lawyer nor do I pretend to know all the law but I believe this can be initiated by the state should they feel your attempting to circumvent the law. In a word God does not define marriage other than setting these conditions or obligations. Genesis 2:24, Proverbs 2:17, Malachi 2:14, Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:7, Mark 10:9, Luke 16:18, John 4:18, Romans 7:2, 1 Corinthians 7:10, 1 Corinthians 7:11, 1 Corinthians 7:39, Ephesians 5:28, Ephesians 5:31 EdB |
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4 | R, Can you Biblically justify actions? | Acts 20:28 | Reighnskye | 135207 | ||
EdB, You stated: 1. "You said church ordained marriages are not illegal. Do you know of any church that does marriages without a marriage license?" Why yes I do. A family member of mine was joined in a homosexual marriage under church authority. Church-ordained marriages are not illegal. Does this answer your question? Perhaps you've heard of this very thing. 2. "In Florida the law clearly states a marriage license must be obtained and signed for the marriage to exist. Now if you want to call something outside this a marriage fine, but what your really after is a redefinition of marriage as defined by the law of the land." What I'm really after is a strictly scriptural definition of marriage, without secularly-derived definitions. I am not looking for a redefinition of marriage, but rather a pre-existing biblical definition of marriage. Again, all I've been provided by posters in this thread thus far are secularly-derived definitions. 3. "You said I suggest you play the hero and champion this cause but you said it could take your life time. Perhaps but if no one begins it will probably never change." I have not been called to this role of changing the laws of the land, nor do I desire to change them. I currently have other life priorities. 4. "You said no insurance polices accept existing medical conditions and that is simply not true. Many major employers have policies that cover a new employee and his family or an employees new spouse without any conditions on preexisting illness." I am aware of the insurance policies which you mention. The obstacle, however, in my obtaining such an insurance policy is that I must first work for the company which offers it. These companies do not hand out these exclusive insurance policies to individuals who do not work for them. I do not work for these companies because I am medically disabled, thereby disqualifying me for coverage. These policies are only available to the working sector. I currently work a limited number of hours for one company, but the insurance policy that you describe is only available to management personnel there. Management personnel must work full-time. I cannot work full-time, because I am handicapped. This is why government medical funding has been provided to me, so long as I am unmarried by the government. These policies which you mentioned are not available to all. Rather, they are selectively targeted. 5. "In your discussion on this every time someone has presented a valid point you add another twist to the story. Such as your brother is infertile, etc. Frankly that tells me your not looking for an answer your trying to champion your case here. That is okay too. Look your in a lousy situation, I agree. The law doesn’t seem fair. I agree." What you are overlooking is that the twists to my story are real life experiences. You may indeed find it easier to invalidate my real life experiences, by entertaining the false notion that they do not affect me, and I am simply trying to champion my cause. However, I suggest that if you cannot palate the twists of my life, then you should probably refrain from offering counsel to me in my situation, insofar as it will fall far short. In the end, however, I have ultimately requested scriptural representation for your stance, as opposed to politically-based legal definitions of marriage. - Genesis 2 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. (NAS95) (continued) |
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