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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What constitutes 'abuse' on the forum? | Acts 17:11 | EdB | 94676 | ||
Graceful You said, "The problem IS, you can't prove your position because you can't listen without emotions and attitude getting in the way, and your attitude prevents you from being able to present a clear Biblical explanation to the contrary... And they CAN...We are not fearful to hear but rather trust the Holy Spirit to lead us. WOF are excellent Bereans because they value the Word of God above theology and church doctrines." Isn't that the definition of a cult, a group that claims superior knowledge, revelation or understanding over the rest of Christiandom? EdB |
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2 | What constitutes 'abuse' on the forum? | Acts 17:11 | gracefull | 94724 | ||
"Isn't that the definition of a cult, a group that claims superior knowledge, revelation or understanding over the rest of Christiandom?" Maybe, I do not specialize in 'cult hunting'. My statement does not claim superior knowledge to the rest of Christiandom. I claim the right to believe SCRIPTURE as revealed by the Holy Spirit ABOVE the established 'orthodox theology'. Please notice I did not SAY what you SAID that WOF claims superior knowledge.... I SAID, " "The problem IS, you can't prove your position because you can't listen without emotions and attitude getting in the way,". Did I say I have superior knowledge? No, I said "attitude and emotions are getting in the way of your(Darcy and you Ed) being able to PRESENT a clear explanation to the contray..." Did I say the position I took was CORRECT and yours was INCORRECT? No, I said you can't present a clear POSITION TO THE CONTRARY. And that WOF believers study opposing views without fear, thus the term Bereans. In plain English, the previous restricted thread ended with me presenting a position for discussion and both you and Darcy exiting abruptly behind your 'theological position'. This does not produce a good Bible study atmosphere for GROWTH. If you truly believe WOF is so terribly bad, you should work harder at proving it wrong scripturally. Your posts of animosity against the teaching and teachers and sarcasm does nothing but gender strife and create an insecure environment for study. What student is going to ask hard questions when they FEAR ridicule and rejection? I hope the other members of the forum get the courage to discourge sternly such behaviour in the future. Otherwise people who really need guidance will not remain here. Only the easy ones who are agreeable will remain. Knowledge of the person and will of God is readily available to ALL Christians in personal relationship with God. Please read my EXIT statement for a better understanding of this statement. God bless |
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3 | What constitutes 'abuse' on the forum? | Acts 17:11 | EdB | 94732 | ||
Graceful That is again untrue I did not exit nor did I hid. I said for the most part I agreed with the three part piece you posted as far as descriptions to of Hades went. That yes there was a Hades(hell). That yes Jesus went there. I agreed with what you posted that there was two sides of Hades, one a hot dry side which held the unrighteous dead and the other called Abraham's bosom or paradise which held those awaiting for the Messiah. I said while I would not care to ever go to the hot dry side and while the scripture does say those there are tormented the understanding of meaning here is not of torture but rather enduring in a uncomfortable place. In the old days before air conditioning I remember many people saying they were tormented by the heat of the day. I further agreed we do not have conclusive evidence of which side Jesus went to, however I did say the Biblical evidence was Jesus went to Hades (Abraham's bosom side) to preach redemption to the captivity and lead them to heaven Eph 4:8. Also we see Jesus on the cross telling the thief today you will be with me in paradise (most consider this as a indication that Jesus was going to Abraham's bosom side of Hades) Luke 23:43. There is no Biblical evidence at all to even suggest that Jesus had any need to go to the Hades to experience torment. I added no where in the redemptive process was torture or torment ever mentioned, in Old Testament animal sacrifice which is a typeology of the sacrifice of Christ the animals were killed as quickly and humanely as possible and in fact suffering was prohibited and abhorred. I can go into much further detail on this aspect if you want. There is no mention of anything other than Jesus’ death upon the cross mentioned later as securing our salvation. In fact every mention of the price of our salvation in the rest of the New Testament mentions Jesus’ death and resurrection or His blood poured out from us. If torture or torment was required it would seem logical it would be mentioned somewhere. Jesus upon the cross cried it is finished, John 19:30 most take this statement as Jesus saying the work of the cross is finished our redemption was secured, we were bought with a price and that price was paid nothing else was required. To take Jesus to Hell to be tormented really means we are taking God since the physical man Jesus was hanging on the cross, I think we all will agree only Jesus’ Spirit which is the Spirit of God could go to Hades. And since He and God are one we now have God being tormented in Hell. In a word that is impossible! While not mentioned in the three part piece you posted the suggestion is that Jesus went to Hades to be tortured at the hands of Satan. It then would have to be assumed that Satan has some access to Hell of which there is no mention of in the Bible. That the God would allow the created one to handle His Deity again not even suggested of in the all of Scripture. That for a period of time Satan not God was in control. That there was some need for Jesus to suffer at the hands of Satan. That the punishment not His death was what was needed for our salvation again never once mentioned in shadows of salvation seen in the Old Testament or again anywhere in the new Testament. I did say the three piece article you posted did not prove your argument at all or even provide enough evidence that what it was suggesting was true or even to make a one wonder. The article contained truth in it’s description of Hades, but there it left the realm of fact and went to the land of fantasy. Bottom line. Sorry but you can’t show me one place in scripture that says Jesus was tormented in Hell. This idea or suggestion is non Biblical, but is becomes dangerous when we think about the implications: 1. To suggest this, suggests either the Bible left something out, that would then make one wonder what other important bits are left out. 2. That the work of the cross was not sufficient alone to secure our salvation it wasn’t the obedient sacrifice of Jesus to endure the cross but rather the requirement to yield to further torment. The price of our salvation was not Jesus’ blood poured out on the cross but rather the torment he experienced in Hell. Which would make one wonder if the Bible has this wrong what else might be wrong. 3. That the Spirit of God was forced to endure torment in Hades (creation). If this be possible then perhaps creation can control God in other ways. Doesn’t that sort of play on the lines of the other WOF teaching that faith is a force that God ahs to respond to. Surely the tangled web can begin to be seen. EdB |
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