Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | sexual intercourse makes one married? | Matt 19:5 | Morant61 | 181981 | ||
Greetings RT! Since the situation you are asking about is a modern one, allow me to address the modern issues. 1) Whether they were in love or not means nothing! If there was a valid marriage license signed and turned into the state, then the couple is married. 2) What Kalos was asking concerns the fact that in some states, a marriage that has not been consummated, can be annulled. If the marriage is annulled, it legally never happened. Each state has it's own guidelines and restrictions. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | state vs God | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 181986 | ||
I agree that part of the validity of marriage is when it is publically recognized, but the central core of the covenant vow is when the 2 parties vow to enter into this contract not just with their words, but with their hearts. I'm not referring here to the feeling of love. There have been a plethora of people who did not feel love for one another, but married with the intention to love. That is, they truly entered into a covenant in which they both agreed to uphold. These two friends of mine essentially purposely lied to the state when they promised what they promised. In their hearts, they intentionally defrauded the state, but not God. They both were in agreement that this was a false promise and even told God that they did not mean what they were about to do. They did not believe they were entering into a covenant before God. I realize that according to the state and to the law, they did marry, but before God did they really? If you are going to base a true biblical marriage soley on the recognition of the state, then what do you do with gay marriages that are recognized legally by the state? I am not saying that there is not a crucial legal dimension neccessary for marriage to be valid (i.e public,witnessed declaration), but I am saying that the most fundamental dimension to what makes a marriage valid in the eyes of God is when the two parties truly agree in their hearts that they genuinely intend and promise to hold up this covenant. If they simply mouthed the words, but did not inwardly intend to uphold them how can God recognize it as valid? | ||||||
3 | state vs God | Matt 19:5 | jlhetrick | 181988 | ||
Hello rodent tamer, I believe it's important to begin my response by reminding you that the Scriptures teach us to be subject to the rules and laws of society where they do not conflict with the higher moral authority of God revealed in scripture. Romans 13:1 (NKJV) 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. So if a man and woman are married officially, through the legal system of their society; they are married indeed and bound to one another and the obligations and responsibilities that go with the oath they have made. With proper consideration for what the bible teaches, the blurred lines of confusion should be brought into clear focus. Submitting to the vows and commitment of marriage publicly and legally while not honoring that in our heart and intent is not consistent with what the bible teaches; nor is it a valid excuse relieving us of the obligations and responsibilities of our condition. The bible clearly teaches that if we make an oath, even a foolish one, we are held accountable by God. Biblical support for this can be provided if you are not familiar. Regarding your concern/question about homosexuals taking that same oath, the same principle applies as above. It may be recognized legally, but it is not consistent with God's moral laws. It is recognized by God as sin. Genesis 2:21-25 (NASB95) 2:21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. Marriage is ordained by God between a man and a woman. If if that is rebelled against through public law, it has no validity before God. I have no idea how many times I have said it but I will say it again here. One of the biggest mistakes we can make is to attempt to philosophize a position in an attempt to find loop-holes in the truth. There are no loop-holes, there is only acceptance or rejection. Hope this helps, Jeff |
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4 | if God knew how can it be valid? | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 182025 | ||
Hi Jeff, How can a legal contract be valid if the people going into that contract INTENTIONALLY lie about the provisions of that contract? If the state was aware the contract was entered under false pretenses, the state would make the contract null and void and the deception would have legal consequences. So to follow your logic, if the state is informed that the people intentionally lied and the state anulls that contract, will then God recognize that contract as valid or as if it never took place? Is God bound to the law of man here in this instance? Or does he say “too bad, you signed on the dotted line, you now have to be married to a person who you falsely vowed to marry” I would agree with your logic if the two parties entered into the contract genuinely and intentionally and it would not matter if they did it without understanding the seriousness of marriage. It would not matter whether it was in a church or on a ship, whether they were christians or satanists, whether they were in love or in an arranged marriage....a marriage vow is a marriage vow and since the institution of marriage is from God, he holds all those who made that vow accountable. The problem in this case is that these people did not make a real spiritual vow to each other or to God and the verbal vow they made to the state was not only a lie, but unfulfilled. According to your thinking these people really married and since they got a legal divorce, they are sinning. By divorcing unjustifiably (since there was no unfaithfulness or dissertion), their divorce is not recognized by God and therefore if they enter into any other relationship, they are committing adultery. Now, let's suppose after all this, the people go to the state and admit to their deception and apart from the legal consequences (fines, jail, deportation),suppose the state then declares that this marriage was never valid and dissolves it as if it never happened, are these people according to God, then absolved and free to marry under God's moral law? I'm not trying to philosophize or find loop holes, I am trying to understand what, according to God, makes a marriage valid. I am trying to use logic to understand what you are claiming. It seems to me that a vow can only be broken if that vow was intended and meant, but if that vow was a KNOWINGLY false vow it makes the vow invalid to begin with even if the state was unaware that it was a false one. God knew it was false and since he is the ultimate determiner only he can decide. Marriage, as scripture emphasizes, is not merely a legal contract, but a spiritual/sacred one. If marriage is a God made contract, not only a legally recognized one and part of the stipulations of that contract requires to intentionally promise certain things on a spiritual plane and false testimony was given and God knew this, how can God accept it as a true vow? I guess my point is how can God accept the falsity of that vow to be true if He knew it was false to begin with? The fact that the state was unaware of the falsity of that vow does not make the vow genuine, it just means that they were deceived. If a marriage covenant is defined by 2 key things: 1). 2 people vowing to each other and to God to love, cherish, be faithful and stay with the other till death parts them. 2.) The 2 people vowing to uphold this covenant publically with witnesses that can testify to this vow. If this is the definition and the first stipulation did not take place and the second one was a false one, I can't help but question the validity of the covenant. |
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5 | if God knew how can it be valid? | Matt 19:5 | mark d seyler | 182028 | ||
Hi RT, I would suggest taking a look at Matthew 23 to see what God thinks about making deceptive vows for personal gain. Rather than releasing people from them, Jesus strengthen the vows. He did not say, "well, I know you didn't mean it in your hearts, so you are not bound to it." He said, "You've not only sworn by the temple, but by the One Who lives in the temple!" There is no such thing in Scripture as vow this is not considered binding, no matter the motivation. Consider Leviticus 27, of the "foolish vow". You still had to pay the price. In the matter of vows, covenants, and promises, its not the duplicity in your heart that is the significant issue, or even the foolishness of a rash decision, its what you say with your mouth**. That is what God holds you to. (** Unless, of course, if you are a wife or daughter and your father or husband countermands your vow within a day. But that doesn't sound like it happened here.) Love in Christ, Mark |
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6 | if God knew how can it be valid? | Matt 19:5 | mark d seyler | 182030 | ||
Oh my! Sorry for my terrible grammer! What I meant to say was: "There is no such thing in Scripture as a vow that is not considered binding, no matter the motivation." - Mark |
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