Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Ray | 33843 | ||
Hi Tim, I am back at John 3:8. The Literal Translation for my Interlinear Greek-English copy has this rendering. "The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who has been generated from the Spirit." I wonder if you would comment on why translators chose the wind over the Spirit? Also, I want to make spirit lower case for John 3:5 since there is no "the" in the sentence. I have been comparing that verse with 1 John 5:5 with the use of "the" there. In other words, "water and spirit" and "water and blood". Thanks in advance. From the heart, Ray |
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2 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Morant61 | 33845 | ||
Greetings Ray! I think the thought is that Jesus is making a play on words. 'Pneuma', like it's OT counterpart, can refer to "wind" or "spirit". The clues are the presence of the phrase "in the same way" and the word "to blow". Thus, everything before the ",so is" refers to a literal wind, and everything after refers to the Holy Spirit. On John 3:5, the absence of the definite article doesn't necessarily rule out a reference to the Holy Spirit. Note that verse 6 and 8 do include it. My choice, would be to stay with the capitalized 'Spirit'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Ray | 33885 | ||
Hi Tim, I would like to convince you that water and blood for the One who came, and water and spirit for the one born into the kingdom makes good sense. However, if that doesn't fly with you, what do you think about the NKJ version's rendering of John 3:11? John 3:11, NKJ, "Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness." I believe that either the "wind" verse or this one must introduce some testimony of Deity to show that God is true. John 3:32, "What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true." From the heart, Ray |
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4 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Morant61 | 34191 | ||
Greetings Ray! I would not be opposed to that rendering! It is definitely an unusual passage in the sense that Jesus rarely uses a plural verb when speaking of Himself. There seem to be three main possibilities. 1) That Jesus is using a Trinitarian formula in this verse. The witness would thus include the Father and the Holy Spirit. 2) That some of Jesus' disciples may have been present and that they were included in this statement as fellow witnesses. 3) That (cf. John 3:32) Jesus is including as witnesses all of those who have believed on Him. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Ray | 34268 | ||
Hi Tim, I appreciate the time you have spent with me on this thread; and with John3:11. 1) I think that this verse is indeed including all three Persons. Jesus (God) has been telling Nicholdemus about earthly things. And I think that He has been saying these things as a Teacher, in contrast to the teacher Nichodemus. 2) Since Nichodemus came to Jesus by night, I don't think that the disciples would be present. In any case, it is certainly Jesus who is saying, verse 5, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit [spirit] he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." 3) I think that verse 32 is saying that He has come as God, and no one receives His testimony. I believe that it is the writer who received His testimony and has set his seal to the fact that God is true. Verse 34, "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of (God); for He gives the Spirit [spirit] without measure." I would still like to convince you that these words of "spirit" would best be lower case. 1a) verse 5, "...unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." The water and blood of 1 John 5:5 and the water and spirit here still make sense to me. 2a) verse 6, That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirt is spirit. 3a) verse 8, "The wind blows where it wishes,...; so is everyone who is born of the spirit." 4a) verse 34, "...for He gives the spirit without measure." From the heart, Ray |
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6 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Hank | 34273 | ||
Ray: I will call you 'old friend' because that's how I feel about you. I'm gladdened to see that you have posted a user profite; saddened, however, to learn about your illness. NOTE TO EVERYONE: I ask all on the forum to read Ray's user profile and join me in continuing fervent prayer for our dear brother in the Lord. --Hank | ||||||
7 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Ray | 34311 | ||
Hi Hank, Thank you "ole" friend. Thank you everyone who might be praying for me. I am only one of millions who are taking life as it comes with thanksgiving and looking for the abundant life in the Lord God as we live out our lives. Hank, can I get you to think with us about the "water and the spirit" and "water and blood" or maybe John 4:24, "in spirit and truth"; all being lower case? In a conversation with Kindness some months ago I decided to capitalize "in Spirit and truth" because no one was open to capitalize John 4:20, "and *You [people] say..." If you are open to the plural "We" that Tim Moran and I are for John 3:11, tell us if you would be open to the thought that John 4:22 could be a similar situation. We are aware that the "people" of verse 20 is not in the Greek. If the "We" words are accepted, I would go back to spirit and truth, all in lower case. From the heart, Ray |
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8 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Makarios | 34469 | ||
Greetings Ray! I just read your profile and learned a little more about you and what you are going through.. My grandfather, when he suffered with cancer, was also named Ray! :-) Your situation has served as a reminder for me, and you will be in my prayers! I am thankful for the chances that we have had (and will have in the future) to discuss different Bible passages and capitalization, and I hope and pray that you can forgive me for some of the past remarks that I have made about feeling a little 'over scrutinized', my friend. I am sorry for that, and I apologize to think that I didn't spend as much time and effort as I should have. I sincerely wish that I could spend more time with my grandfather, but he is gone now. Now that I know more about you, I will not just glimpse at or overlook your posts and suggestions! Yes, you do indeed have some 'kindred spirits' of brotherhood at this Forum! I am praying for you, my Brother in Christ! Nolan Keck (Makarios) |
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9 | How far would you go in a translation? | Matt 1:18 | Ray | 34522 | ||
Hi Nolan, I am thankful for the chances we have had to discuss the Scripture passages also. I have enjoyed all the discussions I have had with everyone here, and no one owes me an apology. I hope that I don't need to apologize to anyone or everyone here, for I've tried to **do my best. I was going to say that we all have to please God alone and I hope that you will not hold anything back if I get especially off base. But in finding the verse that I wanted to say that by (having only one Judge) I found that the surrounding verses speak to me as well. James 4:12, "There is only one *lawgiver and *judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor? Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow, we shall go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and also do this or that." But as it is, you boast in your arrogance [pretensions]; all such boasting is evil. Therefore, to one who **knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin." I hope that you will add some thoughts to this thread about "spirit" words and we can get back to the task at hand. I love you, man.:) (Pass me a diet coke) Later, Ray (From the heart), if the Lord wills. |
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