Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does God plunge mortals into ignorance? | Obad 1:8 | Reighnskye | 130885 | ||
Aaron, I guess that I'm under the impression that humanity born in sin never really possessed the higher wisdom in the first place. Children from the womb lack the light of spiritual awareness, and therefore cannot discern between good and evil without the Law of Moses to eventually instruct them. I fully agree with what you say in your post here. I guess a better way that I may articulate my question would be as follows: Does God elevate mortals to the light of spiritual awareness prior to their rejection of the gospel? Or do people usually merely reject the gospel with no more than the Law of Moses to enlighten them? ---- For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. (Romans 1:18-23 NAS95) Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. (1 Corinthians 1:20-29 NAS95) |
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2 | Does God plunge mortals into ignorance? | Obad 1:8 | following him | 130901 | ||
Hello again Reighnskye; “I guess that I'm under the impression that humanity born in sin never really possessed the higher wisdom in the first place.” Proverbs 8 says that wisdom has existed from the beginning and the start of it was seeking God. Rom 1:18-21 shows that they knew about it but made a deliberate choice to reject it. The evidence of God’s existance “His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature,” was always there for them to see. “Children from the womb lack the light of spiritual awareness, and therefore cannot discern between good and evil without the Law of Moses to eventually instruct them.” I’m not convienced this is completely true. Children seem to have a far keener sense of spiritual things than adults. We very recently had a child in our church that was sick but saw an angel. The angel came and spoke to him saying that he was sent to heal him and he did. It is us adults that have years of dealings in this world of corruption that have a difficult time in sensing the spiritual realm. Children are far more likely to have faith in Christ than we adults. As for children discerning between good and evil I do think you are right that they cannot without some form of instruction indicating to them what is right and what is wrong. And even then they often chose the wrong because they are very much driven by self interest. ”Does God elevate mortals to the light of spiritual awareness prior to their rejection of the gospel?” I don’t believe you can reject something you have no knowledge of. Therefore they must been given a choice to chose from. But the choice may not have come from being elevated to “the light of Spiritual awareness” as Rom 1:18-21 indicates that even the natural creation declares the glory of God. Rom 1:18-21 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. We can see in the OT people like Noah and Enoch who found grace with God prior to the giving of the law. The fact that at least these two had some form of relationship with God show it was possible for all during that time to also. Those that rejected Him did so inspite of the testimony of the entire creation. “Or do people usually merely reject the gospel with no more than the Law of Moses to enlighten them?” I think many people reject the pospel because of the Law of Moses, thinking it just a bunch of rules and regulations. They never realizing that the Law points us to Christ who gives us freedom and the Father who conforms us to the image of His Son. It is not a thing that we can do ourselves, it’s all a work of God’s grace in us. Blessing to you Aaron |
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3 | Does God plunge mortals into ignorance? | Obad 1:8 | Reighnskye | 131189 | ||
Aaron, You write a lot of thought-provoking notes here. Thank you for your indepth answers. You reference that even the natural creation declares the glory of God. I have to wholeheartedly agree. I guess what I'm trying to get at (or conversely understand better myself) is that an adult's rejection of the gospel is largely made via one's own earthly mind and mortal level of understanding. Indeed all wisdom originates from God, both spiritual and earthly. Nonetheless, I personally tend to view the large majority of supposed conversions and/or rejections of the gospel as being made according to the earthly type of knowledge, wherein the volition is somewhat compromised due to lack of spiritual awareness. I have to ponder some of the things that you write in your post here a bit more, insofar as I need to isolate some inconsistencies in either my own belief system or in some of the notions presented on these boards. It is my personal perspective that the majority of religious conversions and/or rejections of the gospel are done on a shallow level of earthly psuedo-consciousness, thereby largely lacking any degree of eternal impact. ---- I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts." For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 NAS95) Reighnskye |
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4 | Does God plunge mortals into ignorance? | Obad 1:8 | following him | 131197 | ||
Hello Reighnskye; You last stated: ”I guess what I'm trying to get at (or conversely understand better myself) is that an adult's rejection of the gospel is largely made via one's own earthly mind and mortal level of understanding.” ”Indeed all wisdom originates from God, both spiritual and earthly. Nonetheless, I personally tend to view the large majority of supposed conversions and/or rejections of the gospel as being made according to the earthly type of knowledge, wherein the volition is somewhat compromised due to lack of spiritual awareness.” You are right. It needs to be. God created us to be not only spiritual but physical as well. All of God’s dealings with man have occurred in the real physical world both in the OT and in the NT. His death was physical, so was His resurrection. His resurrected body was spiritual but also physical. His plan is to redeem creation (physical). When he originally created the world, including us, it was physical, “And behold it was very good” It is very difficult for people even Christians to understand the spiritual or eternity. So God reveals Himself physically (Jesus). And we respond according to the physical revelation. Our choice to follow Christ is based upon His interaction with us here in the real world; The question is whether we go beyond that to actually have a relationship with the Father Who is Spirit. Another factor influencing conversions/ or rejections of the gospel is how we Christians relate to each other. John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." How we love each other will determine if they see Christ or not. ”It is my personal perspective that the majority of religious conversions and/or rejections of the gospel are done on a shallow level of earthly psuedo-consciousness, thereby largely lacking any degree of eternal impact.” I would have to sadly agree with you here. It seems so few people who convert actually go further than what is commonly called “Fire insurance” level Christianity. They don’t grow into a real relationship with the living God and Creator, Jesus Christ that He originally created us for. I appreciate your posts. They have been quite refreshing and thought provoking. Thank you. Blessing to you Aaron |
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5 | Does God plunge mortals into ignorance? | Obad 1:8 | Reighnskye | 131209 | ||
Aaron, Thanks again for all of the great comments. You've given me a bit to think about. Reighnskye |
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