Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 970 | ||
If you are new to this thread, please read the prior two postings before this one to understand where I am coming from. Thank you. Why is it that when something in the Bible doesn't fit with your interpretation, you feel you must either horribly twist it out of context or in this case give the simple answer that since it doesn't make sense then it must just be because we don't know everyting God does? Couldn't this mean that your interpretation doesn't hold up and that Calvinism is no better than the other religions or cults that base their entire belief structure on a few verses taken out of context so that the can separate themselves and "Feel" superior to others? Why can't you see that the whole bible fits in with the "Free Will" theory while only a small portion can be used to justify "Election". Is there anyone out there can interpret this without the standard "It's just one of those mysteries"? I'm sorry if I come off as being harsh, but it's just that I'm getting frustrated trying to understand how someone can honestly read and interpret the whole bible and come away thinking that God chose some people to be saved and chose others that would not. I am willing to admit that I could be interpreting this incorrectly, but as of yet, have not been able to see where my interpretations err (on major subjects) when taking the whole bible into context. |
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2 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 1277 | ||
God chose some to salvation and not others. There could be no other logical understanding of "not by works, lest anyone should boast". There can be nothing in us to merit our being called to salvation, not even the excersize of faith. Remember saving faith is a gift of God. We were dead in trespasses and sins unable to make an improvement of our situation before God. He must do the first act in our salvation. We can do nothing to bring our salvation about. God's perfection (His fairness is included in all His perfections) can not be questioned by ourselves who are not fair beings. I might add that in my own experience I become most frustrated by things that are not fair -- as I appraise them. So your frustration is not unusual. But it is important that we don't make the mistake of putting another's position in the worst possible light, and then do it publicly. I hope I am fair with you. |
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3 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1288 | ||
I'm sorry but I don't see how you equate "God chose some to salvation and not others" to "not by works, lest anyone should boast" The "Not by works..." is simply saying that there is no good deed that we could do to get to Heaven, it is by faith alone. There is absolutely no way you could take this statement and come up with the idea that God has selected people that will not be saved. I agree that God must do the first act in our salvation. He did that when he sent Jesus to die for EVERYONE's sins - past, present, and future. That's very clear. If Jesus would not have died for our sins, then we would have no chance of getting in Heaven. God offered us the chance for salvation as a gift to us - a gift we don't deserve. Because God offered us this gift, it is then up to us to decide to accept it. Those that choose to accept it will be saved and are called the believers, born-again, Christians (although this term is now used usely), followers of Christ, elect, the chosen ones, etc... It just doesn't make any sense why God would only select certain individuals to be saved. Not because I don't think it's fair (for who am I to say what God should do), but more because I just can't see it that way in the bible. There are just too many examples of it being our choice. God opened the offer of salvation up to ANYONE that would believe. |
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4 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 1496 | ||
You wrote.."God offered us the chance for salvation as a gift to us - a gift we don't deserve. Because God offered us this gift, it is then up to us to decide to accept it." We need to discuss the assumptions made regarding that statement. The gift is offered as a 'chance' as you put it which we don't deserve. We agree that it isn't deserved -- much like any gift -- can you think of a gift that is deserved? I guess most would agree that would be payment and not a gift, if deserved then it is no longer good news. The 'chance' is not what we are giving people when we tell them about God and Jesus satisfaction for their sins. The truth is what we are giving them in the person of Christ and it is not primarily propositional truth, it is "the way the truth and the life"... a person. Now I know you might object that I have not represented all of what you meant with the word chance, you meant opportunity. I know this, but isn't there really much more involved there? Don't you think that the reason for sharing Christ is greater than just to make converts? I do, I think the reason God commands us to witness to Him is to firstly bring honor and glory to His name, and secondly to beget sheep. So the emphasis needs to get away from results and much more strongly on clarity of truth about His perfect love, sovereign rule, and intimate all-knowing nature. Specific atonement is the only consistant view to this understanding. |
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5 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1501 | ||
Not only did you not answer my question, you took a small portion of what I said, twisted it around and used it to start another topic. (I've been finding this very typical of people that believe that the doctrine of election refers to God choosing some to be saved and others not to be.) Since you asked about the reason for sharing Christ to others, I feel you've got the order wrong. We share Christ in hopes of bringing others to Him which will result in more people worshiping God. I back this up with the Great Commission (Matt 28:16-20) which tells us to go out and make disciples of all nations, teaching them everything about Jesus. |
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6 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 1528 | ||
Wow what a relief, I sure wouldn't want to let you down and behave differently than your preconceived stereotype of what others who believe like I do. Isn't it easy to rank others rather than just respond to them in love and common pursuit of the truth? I would like to request that you put out some increased effort. And stay on point! I do, follow my example! I wonder what you could possibly hope to gain by lumping me and my behaviour in discussion/debate into some category? I'll reprint what I'm talking about ...(I've been finding this very typical of people that ... |
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7 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1532 | ||
I'd love to respond with love and compassion but when the people that respond don't answer the questions or take parts of it and twist it around, it really gets frustrating. Sorry if that offends you but your response to my initital posting to you was just as offensive (if not more) to me. In retrospect, I probably should have been a little nicer when I pointed out that you did not answer my question but instead chose to pull a piece of it out and twist it around. It's just that it happens so often when talking about election. | ||||||
8 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 1535 | ||
Sorry IF that offends you! What could you possiibly mean by IF? At first glance I didn't see how you own an honest sorrow. Which is weightier to you, your emptiness for being offensive or your pride of intellect? We all must realize that our positions are lived out in all of life. You can't treat people one way and then treat their Creator (whose image we bear) another way that is inconsistent with one another. Would you lead someone to Christ with such an inconsistant repentance? Would it look like this..."sorry God IF I have sinned and offended your Holy law, please save me. Of course you wouldn't, but I would like to know what license you have for such behaviour? I have a clear conscience with all that has gone on but you must face the inconsistencies of your beliefs. This is not theory! It is as real as life itself. You have demonstrated the inconsistencies of your position. Your position is not defensible and you go off as a result. Why do you refuse to defend the specific point of difference, "chance" for salvation? I have not yet seen an articulated approach to that small part of what you say I twisted. Get to work on it or maybe we'll just have go for a fifteen mile foot race to resolve our issues! |
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9 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 1579 | ||
Hey JG8Ball stay with me in the pursuit of truth. Your last note was saying this is the bottom line, an accountant would say that is the end of an account. I think that we've only begun. But then one of my passions is to run long distances, this gives me endurance and a love of endurance. Do you have that? | ||||||