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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Offering? Or having offered... | Hebrews | Reformer Joe | 88262 | ||
"Everthing is in the eternal present to God who is not subject to time." True, but the atonement itself took place inside the boundaries of time and space, no? "I am sorry if my phrasing has disturbed you, but the sacrifice of Jesus is still efficaious even today as it was efficaious for the saints of the Old Testament. It is the one sacrifice." But is the sacrifice itself eternal? That is the point of difference, in my view. Certainly the benefits are applied throughout all human history, but the propitiatory sacrifice was confined to a few hours on a hill outside Jerusalem. I understand that the Eucharist, in RCC understanding, is the means by which Christ's sacrifice is "made present" (please feel to correct imprecision on my part; I want to get this down). How was Christ's sacrifice "made present" to those who lived before the Incarnation? Interestingly enough, for those of you reading this within the time frame as I am posting it, James White details a recent debate with Robert Sungenis on this very topic at http://www.aomin.org Thanks! --Joe! |
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2 | Offering? Or having offered... | Hebrews | Emmaus | 88268 | ||
Joe, I must confess your question (How was Christ's sacrifice "made present" to those who lived before the Incarnation?)is one I have never encountered before, so I am reluctant to give any "authoritative" answer. But since the Eucharist is a sacrament of faith, I would suspect that the faith of the Old Testament saints comes into play in any answer. What do you think? Emmaus |
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3 | Offering? Or having offered... | Hebrews | Reformer Joe | 88269 | ||
"But since the Eucharist is a sacrament of faith, I would suspect that the faith of the Old Testament saints comes into play in any answer. What do you think?" Well, I hold to a different sacramentology than you do, of course, so I can associate the OT sacrificial system (particularly the Passover feast) with the Lord's Table in the NT. But I would agree that the faith of both OT saints and NT saints is definitely a given. --Joe! |
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4 | Offering? Or having offered... | Hebrews | Emmaus | 88277 | ||
Joe, "Well, I hold to a different sacramentology than you do, of course, so I can associate the OT sacrificial system (particularly the Passover feast) with the Lord's Table in the NT. But I would agree that the faith of both OT saints and NT saints is definitely a given." Our sacramentology may be different, but not so different that I can not also associate the Passover feast with the Lord's table. It is different to the extent that I do not associate them as being equal in efficacy, since the Passover feast was a "making present" the Passover in Egypt and the "Lord's Table" " makes present" the fulfillment of what the Passover in Egypt foreshadowed, which is "Christ our Passover." This is an interesting topic which we have touched on before. In a sense the Eucharist is still a veiled presence and a "pledge of the glory to come" in its fullness only with the Second Coming and the resurrection of our bodies. It is as a sacrament of faith, "the substance of things hoped for" so to speak. But I may be getting in over my head here. Emmaus |
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