Subject: Is Belief in the Trinity Required? |
Bible Note: Holmes, Forgive me if I am wrong, but i am beginning to suspect that the reason you keep pressing is because you already know exactly where you want to take the conversation should you get a simple yes or no answer, and my failure to treat the subject as simple is hindering you from your already predetermined course. However, I will discuse it further for now. I will assume that I need not dwell on the Holy Spirit side of the question since you did not bring that back up, but I will try to explain why your question with regards to Christ needs clarified. The verses you quoted in John is the very reason I asked for clarity, because Christ DID say that the Father was greater. But this does not answer the question I asked of you. In what sense? Are you saying that the Father has power that Christ does not have? Are you saying that the Father is of a different substance or make up which is of better quality than Christ? Or rather are you merely saying that the Father is greater than the Son in terms of position or authority? In other words, Christ and the Father can be equal in all things, yet have priority in their roles. One example would be my wife and I. I have no inherent superiority over my wife, but I am her superior with regards to the chain of command, with regards to authority. So I say again, you still must explain to me what you are suggesting. Are you saying that Christ is not the same thing that God is, or are you merely talking about a positional superiority? If you are saying that Christ is, in His essence, inferior to the Father, then I suggest that you are in fact saying that Christ is NOT God. In that case yes, your pressupostions are contradictions and I would tell that believer He is in fact denying the deity of Christ, and the clear testimony of scripture. If I were to say to you that Jesus is a creating being, the cheif of angels, and in all ways inferior to the Father, but don't worry, I do affirm that He is God...then I hope you would rather quickly call me on it and say to me, "No sir, you deny Christ as God in every way." If a person is suggesting that the Father has a certain preiminence in the Godhead, a certain priority in authority and glory and perhaps chief share in the initiatives and eternal purposes of God, then I would not at all say such a person is denying the deity of Christ. And in that sense it seems to me scriptural to suggest that the Father is greater, and I believe it is to this which Christ referred in your quoted passages. So yes, you still need to clarify but I hope I answered either scenario in this post. In Christ, Beja |