Subject: pagan influence? |
Bible Note: Hank Thanks for you reply. Can we have a constructive discussion. All you have done is told me that you think I’m wrong and then you quote two verses at me and that is meant to settle the matter. So you don’t like what I wrote, does it threaten your beliefs? I trust we are both in search of truth and therefore discussion on these things should be benefial to everyone – I’m not afraid to change my beliefs if someone can show me a better way – but it must be a scriptiual way. Going back over what I wrote before, but thowing in some extra comments... God was sure who he was - in the OT God tells us he is one. Deut 6:4 The LORD(YHWH) descibes himself in Ex 34:5-7 Any problems so far? The Jews of OT times believed he is one. ie. one person, who we today would call the Father, and that the Holy Spirit is the Father's power by which he is every where presant. As far I know this is a correct statement – I can find a source if you want. The trinity is a teaching that started to develop in the 2nd century and was completed in the 4th century. This development was influenced by pagan ideas and ever since people have tried to prove the trinity from the Bible. This is well documented in books written of early Christian doctrine – I have several books at home, I can give you the titles if you want. There is a post on this site that explains it all – search for ‘pagan influence trinity’, the first post that comes up. The Bible is clear, it speaks of: 1. God the Father 2. Jesus as the Son of God, never 'God the Son' 3. Holy Spirit is constantly shown to be a power that the Father controls. It is His power, in Gen 1:2 it is 'the Spirit of God' that hovered over the waters. Never is the Holy Spirit called 'God the Holy Spirit'. Do you agree that the following is not found in the Bible: ‘trinity’, ‘God the Son’, ‘God the Holy Spirit’? I guess my comments about the Holy Spirit cause you grief. Tell me, how was John the Baptist ‘filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth’ (Luke 1:15 NIV) if the Holy Spirit is a person. What is Luke 1:35 telling us about the Holy Spirit? “The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God.” (NIV) This is the summary I gave to the question from another person… In answer to your question, it is the Christians of the 2nd century that were influenced by pagan beliefs and they corrupted what the apostles taught the century before. The Apostle Paul taught.... 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.(NIV) 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,(NIV) 1 Cor 8:6 tells us that there is ‘one God, the Father’ could this not be plainer? It is clearer than Rom 9:5, which I have answer in another post. 1 Tim 2:5 tells us there is one God and that Jesus is not that one God – seems clear enough. I can quote more if you like. Please explain where ‘manifold are the errors’. Please tell me where you agree, if we can generate some common ground we have somewhere to start from. Bern PS I'll answer John 14:16 later, must go now. |