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NASB | 1 John 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 1 John 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three are in agreement [their testimony is perfectly consistent]. |
Subject: Can we agree? A case of agreement? |
Bible Note: Ray: But if you would say that God does not have a spirit I would disagree with that. For Jesus gave up His spirit when He breathed His last. God also breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath [sic] of life. John 3:8 talks about the wind or the spirit from God. Rich: I must emphatically insist that God's Word does certainly state that His Spirit not only exists but He longs for our return, ALL mankind. He longs for this but He knows it won't happen for everyone. As a matter of fact, the Bible pictures only a remnant or a minority will make it to Heaven as cited in Matt 7:13. Ray: For Ezekiel 36:26,27 I don't know if the spirit occurances there should agree in case or not. Rich: I must admit, I don't know for certain. I see your puzzlement. A person could argue either Pro or Con. John 3:11, NASB, "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony." John 3:11, NKJ, "Most assuredly I say to you, We speak what we know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness." Ray: I go with the NKJ for that verse. Can you see the possibility of the spirit and the Spirit as determining a plural of "Our witness"? Rich: I would have side with you on this choice. Here Jesus is speaking and is clearly referring to Himself and the Godhead in general. Ray: 1) Certainly the witness of our spirit is worthwhile but the the witness of God is greater. My witness as a man in agreement with the Scriptures, (I believe), is that the understanding should be-- that the authors intended to say-- "For there are three that bear witness, the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." 1 John 5:9, "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for the witness of God is this, that He has borne witness concerning His Son." Ray: What is His witness? That Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:6, "This is the One [sic] who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood." And the [One], the Spirit, is the truth. Rich: In this case, one must go with the context and decide in favor of the deity of the Spirit. The part I have difficulty in comprehending is the blood and water's interaction in this scenario. The only water of any value in the NT is that of the baptism. The only blood of any significance in the NT is that of Jesus Christ. So my question to you: Should the blood and water in this verse be capitalized, indicating their deity? I've got to summarize this whole discussion by asking or mentioning one thing. I say question as I'm not sure. (Please correct me, you Greek scholars, if you see fit to do so.) But if I recall correctly, the Greek language in the first century DID NOT provide for upper case or lower case of letters. I guess they didn't see a need to address this concept of deity in their written language upon discussing their many gods. Thus we as modern Bible students are left with the task of interpreting what the authors really intended. Again, almost with the risk of repeating myself to nausium, in my mind, the Bible presents two kinds of spirit: 1) God's Spirit of the Godhead 2) spirit of man which might. Also, you didn't address my other question: Do you see room in God's Word for yet a third kind of spirit? What would be your scripture in support thereof? God bless. --Rowdy |