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NASB | 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the [blast of the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. |
Subject: The rapture, A comming event, Pg 3. |
Bible Note: I know this is a forum for discussion, but it is my opinion and recommendation that this topic be dropped. Those that believe it happened already will continue to believe so because of the evidence they see. It is not disputable. Those that believe it has not happened yet will continue to believe so because of the evidence THEY see. It, too, is not disputable. Until and unless someone can interpret the Revelation to its utmost (which has yet to happen), neither side can guarantee they are correct. I see a normal reading of scripture according to dispensational theology as proclaiming the second coming of Christ in the time of the first century because Jesus says it will happen to that generation, the apostles all believed it would happen in their lifetimes, history supports supposed interpretations of the Revelation, and Jesus' coming would be like a thief in the night, or like lightning flashes from east to west (i.e. no one would see the coming itself, only the obvious results of it). In addition, prophetic voice of the Old Testament concurs with a fulfillment of the proposed preterist interpretations. Most particularly Daniel and his ten/eleven horns in correlation with the eleven Roman rulers (as seen from a first century Jewish perspective). Julius, Antony, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellius. Ten in all ... then an eleventh, Vespasian, that pushes three horns, Galba, Otho, and Vitellius, out of the way. This in accordance with the beast of chapter 13. Seven heads, being seven kings according to chapter 17, one slain, but healed. Then there is an eighth according to chapter 17, which is actually one of the seven, and this one goes forth to ruin. "Ruin" an active verb in the syntax of the sentence. Julius is slain (the head that was wounded to death). So the first head becomes Antony (again from the first century Jewish perspective of rulers over Judea). The second head is Augustus. The third head is Tiberius. The fourth is Caligula. The fifth is Claudius. The sixth is Nero. The seventh, which will only remain for a short while (Chapter 17) is Galba who reigned for only seven months. Then there is an eigth, who is actually one of the seven, this being Vespasian. Galba, Otho, and Vitellius are not considered real emperors by most scholars and historians, and they have almost no place in the histories of Josephus in regard to them being emperors. Next, according to a normal reading of scripture, it should be noted that one of the kings was currently in power as stated in chapter 17. Now, with a proposed date of early 60s AD for the writing of the Revelation (See "Before Jerusalem Fell" by Dr. Kenneth Gentry, who makes a very good and credible arguement for the dating of the book), Nero fits the parameters. "Five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come, and when he comes, he must remain a short while." At the time of Nero ... Antony fallen (having taken the place of Julius according to chapter 13) is one, Augustus fallen is two, Tiberius fallen is three, Caligula fallen is four, Claudius fallen is five. Nero is. Galba is yet to come, and when he comes, he will remain a short while (seven months). Then, on top of that, Nero Caesar written in Hebrew, counted according to the Hebrew counting system, totals 666 ... and this without any funky arithmetic. Each character has a value. Add them up and you have the number. In addition, textual criticism reveals versions that read 616. As it happens, when the Latin version of Nero Caesar is translated into Hebrew (which drops the end "Nero versus Neron"), the same Hebrew counting system talleys to 616 missing the value of 50 from the missing "N" in his first name. While this most certainly looked like I did what I suggested we should not do, understand that I am really just trying to make a point. The Revelation is a touchy subject. A preterist will not convince a premillenialist and vice versa. This topic is pointless. It is my suggestion that we focus on the things that matter today, in our own lives, and not on things that have either happened already or are yet to come. If it already happened, we are in the kingdom of Christ. We should live accordingly. If it hasn't happened yet, we should live accordingly, else we won't be ready when it does. Got it folks? This topic is a bad one, and WILL lead to strife, because no common ground will be discovered. Theo-Minor |