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NASB | Luke 19:44 and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 19:44 and they will level you to the ground, you [Jerusalem] and your children within you. They will not leave in you one stone on another, all because you did not [come progressively to] recognize [from observation and personal experience] the time of your visitation [when God was gracious toward you and offered you salvation]." |
Subject: The time of your visitation? |
Bible Note: Hi Steve, I did not mean for you to defend Piper's statements. I apologize if that was how I came across. I will try to be more careful! :-) I am asking rhetorically why he does these things. I don't really expect an answer, since who can speak for another? But anytime someone says "Jesus said . . . , but really He meant . . . ", this is a red flag for me. So as he says, in effect, "Jesus said time, but He meant purpose", I question this. He seems to be just ignoring that part of Jesus' statement - I assumed that he was doing this having chosen between alternatives of how to interpret this passage, hence my comment of "deflecting", as he redirects one's understanding of "time" as though it did not actually mean "time" (such as a particular moment in history), but rather referred to "purpose", but I suppose this could equally be done with a complete lack of intent, although I would not think of this man in that way, as to interpret a passage without giving consideration to the words used. I hope I am making sense! I follow a very very literal approach to Scripture. I am loath to ever say, "it says this, but it means that." If it says this, it means this, and I will change my beliefs so that I am accordance with the exact and plain teaching of Scripture. Many people, and I am not saying that Piper does this, but many people will become established in a belief or belief system, and will then interpret some Scriptures less literally in order to make them conform to their established belief system. Of course, there are other possible reasons as well for not interpreting a Scripture literally, as in some instances, the Bible defines some things symbolically. In those cases, we must cite the Biblical authority. Also there are times when we see a clear-cut pattern of word usage, which we can use to understand what the writer meant. This is what Piper has presented, yet I do not see the foundation he claims. I simply do not agree with his arguments. This is why I am interested in the word studies. He has cited word usage as his foundation, as "know" is used to mean "approve, accepted", yet I fail to see the word actually used as he cited. So I wonder that perhaps he has a different foundation. I have noticed this same tendency of non-literal interpretation of time-related Scriptures among preterists, so I wondered aloud if that may be related. I do not know to what degree Piper is preterist, nor how it may or may not affect his methods of Scriptural interpretation. As for myself, I have revised my eschatology continuously as I have continued to study such things. I am somewhat embarrassed about things I wrote 5 years ago, fortunately, not many people read them! :-) But to answer your question, I am considered Futurist, and am expecting future fulfillment of things that (to my understanding) Piper considers already fulfilled. But I want to stress that my knowledge of Piper's beliefs regarding prophetic fulfillment is extremely limited, so I do not wish to speculate further on this. But allow me to ask you, do you think Jesus was making a statement of the Jews not realizing that their Messiah was to come at a certain time, that the time had come, and they did not recognize it? Or do you think, as Piper teaches, that Jesus was saying the Jews failed to recognized the purpose of Jesus' coming? Which do you think embodies the meaning of the statement, "because you did not recognize the time of your visitation"? Love in Christ, Mark |