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NASB | Luke 12:20 "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?' |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 12:20 "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own all the things you have prepared?' [Job 27:8; Jer 17:11] |
Subject: What happens to our soul when we die? |
Bible Note: Hi SBoone, I am enjoying this study with you too, and you ask some very challenging questions. I also do not have home internet, and so that will limit my responses to you. Regarding prayer: Matt 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Jesus told us that when we pray, we are to direct our prayers to the Father. John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. Jesus said "You don't have to pray to Me, and I pray to the Father for you - He loves you, and you can go straight to Him." Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Our dead friends and relatives are not sitting on that throne, God is. Why would we pray to anyone but God? Christianity is all about our relationship with God, and if our relationship is with God, we pray to Him. Jesus prayed to His Father. He told us to pray to our Father. The apostles prayed to the Father. The one example I can think of that is at all different is when Stephen prayed to Jesus: "receive my spirit." This is where I would begin. As far as who I think people are speaking to when they address prayers to the dead, and who speaks back? I don't know. Maybe demons, maybe Satan himself, but I doubt it. Why should he bother with them, they're already derailed. Maybe the product of their own imaginations, who knows? On Is. 66:17 I still maintain that a thing can be not remembered or thought about yet may still exist, and that this is not sufficient to negate something if it is otherwise shown in scripture, and so that this verse is not germain to this discussion. Regarding 2 Peter 3:10 "the earth (Gk. ges - the land, as opposes to kosmos - the world system) will be burned up, and the works that are in it." The plain straightforward meaning of this verse is that this planet is going to burn, and all the works it has on it are going to burn with it. Simple interpretation: All the works upon this earth will one day burn. I know of no place in scripture that the unredeemed, or anyone else, are considered "works", except as a part of God's original creation, which does not seem to fit the context here. In terms of works that remain, or works that burn, works are always something that a person does, rather than what they are, to so say that "works" in this passage refers to the unredeemed is to read meaning into the text that is not found there on its own. And I disagree with you, I think the earth has a great many works in serious need of being burned up. One is the sex shop a couple of doors down from my work. There are more works besides. Basically, everything done by man in rebellion to God, which is most of everything. Baptism by fire, baby!! Wash away the old, to prepare the way for the new. The thing is, we don't need a doctrine of non-survival of the unredeemed dead to tell us not to pray to them. I reject the notion that I can interpret Scripture according to what I think may or may not be the effect of a certain teaching. People pray to the dead. People also pray to demons, and to fallen angels, yet the Bible teaches that they exist, I an will not try to alter that. We have to leave our Theology, expectations, and all other baggage at the door, and just simply seek to understand what the Bible says. Do do a truly complete study of this subject, I will need to take more time at home. This week is pretty busy for me, perhaps next I can give to you a more complete presentation. You can also enter search words, and see the discussion that has gone on before. Thank you for the info in your profile. Since this is basically a cold and blind way to meet, it helps to get a sense of who we are talking to. :-) One last thing. One of the primary things to keep in mind when attempting to understand the Bible, is to understand what the writer meant as he wrote. The four corners of the earth - we say the same thing ourselves. The rising and setting of the sun - Doc (?) has a fancy name for that kind of language but I don't. Phenomenasomething. That the dead don't know anything, their thoughts have perished, etc., these statements are found in the poetic portions of scripture. Not that there is not truth in these portions, but some of it is there to show how man thinks (especially Job - after all that was recorded, God told them they were all wrong), and should not be used for building doctrine, and especially when it seems to disagree with narative historical portions such as about Saul and Samuel. Anyway, I am looking forward to discussions on any number of topics with you. God bless! Love in Christ, Mark |