Results 61 - 80 of 140
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: FTimA Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64779 | ||
Here is my second installment. I quoted Matt 10:6 "but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". You added, "The lost sheep! The jews did not understand the words of Jesus. In fact He preached to them in parables knowing they would not understand! Mark 4:12 "so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."" I am not sure what you mean by adding "The lost sheep!" but once again, context is key. Mark 4:10 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. Mark 4:11 And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN." Jesus was speaking to "His followers, along with the twelve", but prior to this the writer says "as He was alone". From this I get that at most it may have been a small group of individuals. Anyway, Jesus continues, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables." To those who were closest to Jesus, at that time, he reveals the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to those who are outside get everything in parables." Who are these that are outside? Outside of this small group? outside of the kingdom of God? outside of what? 1 Corinthians, using the same phrase "who are outside", gives us some indication. 1 Cor 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. Here we have "those who are within the church" (the kingdom of God) and "those who are outside" (the wicked man). Could we not conclude then that "those who are outside" are those who have not obeyed God, whether the Jews in Mark's account, or both Jew and Greek, in Paul's account? I asked in my previous post "Doesn't this then include all people?" You state, "The gospel is to be proclaimed universally, but only those whom God quickens will understand. Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. It is by God's grace we are given spiritual life (a heart of flesh) so that we might believe." "Spiritual life" and "(a heart of flesh)" cannot be taken to mean the same thing here. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. I quote Paul, again writing to the Roman Christians, Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. It is by God's grace we have opportunity for salvation through Jesus Christ. This "gospel" is the power of God for salvation TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES (not just an elect, chosen, predestined, foreordained, etc.) group of people. |
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62 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64778 | ||
I must respond in two posts because of content limitation. Romans 9:13 is an interesting scripture and again, context is key here. Beginning in the first verse, Paul assures his readers that his testimony is true and begins to express grief for his "brethren". Who is he referring to? Verse 4 tells us they are the Israelites, or Jews. Also in verse 4, Paul plainly states that the 'adoption' belonged to them. What is this adoption? It is the relationship they could have with God through obedience to the law. Verse 6, "For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel, nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED. That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God (those that are circumcised in the flesh, fta), but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants (those that have obeyed God, fta)." You say, "Both boys were "sons" of Abraham but one was preferred over the other. Why?" I must simply say it was God's plan. Gen 25:23 The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger." This you state correctly in citing Rom 9:11 "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice (KJV: election) would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,". God's purpose is at work here. Paul then says, Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. This passage was, at least for me, a little difficult to understand. Paul asks, "What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!" What we may call injustice in our eyes does not matter. We are God's creation and we have no say in what He chooses to do to implement His plan. This is explained in Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. Many times in the story of Moses' dealings with Pharoah it is said that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Ex 7:3 "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. 2 Ex 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. 3 Ex 7:14 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Pharaoh's heart is stubborn; he refuses to let the people go. 4 Ex 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. 5 Ex 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. 6 Ex 9:12 And the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. 7 Ex 9:35 Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not let the sons of Israel go, just as the LORD had spoken through Moses. 8 Ex 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go. 9 Ex 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go. 10 Ex 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land. 11 Ex 14:4 "Thus I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will chase after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." And they did so. Hence the statement Paul makes, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." With this in mind it is easy to understand the situation that occurred between Jacob and Esau. It was always God's plan that Esau "despise his birthright" and that Jacob receive it. Works not being necessary for salvation is the issue here. Where in the bible does it say that baptism is a work? |
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63 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64713 | ||
Our bodies or our souls? God tells Adam that our bodies will return to dust. Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." |
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64 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64710 | ||
As one who has learned very quickly, sarcasm will not get you very far on the forum. The thief was forgiven by Christ while Christ was alive. After Christ's death the New Covenant took place. It was some 40 days until the first gospel sermon was preached. This sermon included baptism as a requirement of obedience unto salvation. Acts 2;37 "Brethren, what shall we do?" Acts 2:38 "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;" You can pick and choose scripture all you want. It will not change the truth. |
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65 | Where can I find verses on Pre-Trib Rapt | Rev 1:1 | FTimA | 64704 | ||
The word rapture, to my knowledge, is not found in the bible. What is it you are looking for? |
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66 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64693 | ||
No, I do not agree with that at all and the bible does not teach that. | ||||||
67 | What is the literal Greek translation? | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64692 | ||
Oh, so you make a statement saying the order is incorrect according to the Greek, but cannot back it up? I do not read Greek and would expect someone who states that the Greek tense is evidence of something different than a large number of translations, who uses terms such as past, present, and future predicate, would be able to support their position with a little more than "read the Greek". | ||||||
68 | What is the literal Greek translation? | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64690 | ||
You make a lot of good comments but draw no conclusions. Being born again occurs at baptism. This is plain bible teaching. Jesus says to Nicodemus in Jn 3:3, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." and in Jn 3:5, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." One could rightly conclude that being "born again" involves two things, 1) being born of water (baptism), and 2) being born of spirit (faith). Both are required but does it matter which comes first? If I am a sinner and become baptized but do not know why, or for what purpose, am I saved? I would say no. Otherwise anyone who would immerse themselves in a swimming pool would be saved. I must, by faith, comply with God's command to be baptized (he who believes and is baptized will be saved, Mk 16:16, repent and be baptized, for the remission of sins, Acts 2:38). Faith, meaning belief, must come before baptism. The example of Cornelius and his household is interesting because of how it all occurred. The whole point of his conversion was to prove that Gentiles now had access to salvation. Read of Peter's vision. Acts 10:30 Cornelius said, "Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments, 31 and he *said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. 32 'Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.' 33 "So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord." 34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36 "The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)-- 37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. The phrase "the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also" implies that He was poured out on something prior to the Gentiles. This would include all people now, Jews and Gentiles. What occurred immediately afterwards. Acts 10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Notice the wording in Acts 10:33, "we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord." and vs 48, "he (Peter) ordered them to be baptized". |
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69 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64679 | ||
The context of the passage you cite actually begins in chapter 5. But we must back up even more to Genesis 22. Gen 22:15 Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven, 16 and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. This is the beginning of the old covenant. In Exodus we see, Ex 6:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Now you shall see what I will do to Pharaoh; for under compulsion he will let them go, and under compulsion he will drive them out of his land." 2 God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them. 4 "I also established My covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land in which they sojourned. 5 "Furthermore I have heard the groaning of the sons of Israel, because the Egyptians are holding them in bondage, and I have remembered My covenant. 6 "Say, therefore, to the sons of Israel, 'I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will deliver you from their bondage. I will also redeem you with an outstretched arm and with great judgments. 7 'Then I will take you for My people, and I will be your God; and you shall know that I am the LORD your God, who brought you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. God through Moses delivers Israel out of Egypt. Moses has received God's law and is about to deliver it to Israel. We pick up in Deuteronomy 5. Deut 5:1 Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. After delivering what is commonly called "the law of Moses", Moses closes by saying, Deut 6:24 "So the LORD commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God for our good always and for our survival, as it is today. 25 "It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before the LORD our God, just as He commanded us. Moses then prepares them for what they are about to experience in Deuteronomy chapter 7. Deut 7:1 "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, 2 and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. 3 "Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. 4 "For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you. 5 "But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire. After giving Israel these instructions he tells them why they are to do this, Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. Now, fast forward to the time of Christ. Jesus instructs his disciples to go out and preach the gospel. Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Jesus did this because Israel at that time was God's chosen people, they had His law, the prophets who foretold of Jesus' coming, they were to be first to hear the gospel. But what happened? Israel rejected Jesus (not all but enough). Acts 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. During this time, there were really only to groups of people, God's people, Israel, and Gentiles. As is evident above, Paul said that the Jews repudiated the word of God so he turned to the Gentiles. So what is the conclusion then? We have all people made up of Jews and Gentiles. The word of God was given to the Jews, God's chosen people, but they rejected it. It was then given to the Gentiles. Doesn't this then include all people? |
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70 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64677 | ||
I will do the search you suggest. It looks like it would be a good study. You say, "He makes choices in His dealings with men and with nations." I would agree to a point. God dealt with both men and nations on a grand scale in the old testament. These days I am unsure of His involvement with nations. I am more sure of His involvement with an individuals soul. Nations are made up of people and each person possesses a soul. This is the treasure God wants. I believe His involvment with nations, per se, would be secondary. I do not question your sincerity or faith but in the passages I listed we see two things. God shows no partiality towards man and he has provided salvation for all men, not just a select few (you can define "few" however you like). You have more control over your destiny than you think. Take Adam and Eve for instance. Did they not have a choice whether or not to eat of the forbidden fruit? Of course they did. They were tempted, much like as we are, and rather than take the way of escape provided to them, which was obedience to God's word, they chose to sin. Each individual has this same choice. |
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71 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64643 | ||
The parable follows, Matt 13:24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves *said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?' 29 "But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn." The explanation of the parable, Matt 13:36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field." 37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. I do not agree with an "invisible church" and a "visible" church in the sense you have portrayed it. Yes, it can be invisible because it consists of spiritual things and yes, it can be visible because if a group of Christians gather together they would represent a segment of the church (Mt 18:20). I also do not agree, based on scripture above, that "all congregations (generally speaking) include both wheat and tares". In the explanation Jesus provides of the parable wheat (good seed) are "the children of the kingdom" and the tares are "the children of the wicked one". Do you mean to say that all congregations of the church have children of the wicked one in them? As to your comment "Election by God of those who shall be saved is the determining factor of salvation" I attach a post I just finished. The passages of scripture listed below span the entire period of the writing of the bible, from Moses to John. All of them teach that salvation is for all who want it because God created, creates, and will create ALL mankind, and would rather that NONE would perish. Man's freedom of choice is the only thing between him and his God. Deut 10:17 "For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 2 Chr 19:7 "Now then let the fear of the LORD be upon you; be very careful what you do, for the LORD our God will have no part in unrighteousness or partiality or the taking of a bribe." Job 34:19 Who shows no partiality to princes Nor regards the rich above the poor, For they all are the work of His hands? Prov 18:5 To show partiality to the wicked is not good, Nor to thrust aside the righteous in judgment. Prov 24:23 These also are sayings of the wise. To show partiality in judgment is not good. Prov 28:21 To show partiality is not good, Because for a piece of bread a man will transgress. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God. Gal 2:6 But from those who were of high reputation (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--well, those who were of reputation contributed nothing to me. Eph 6:9 And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him. 1 Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. |
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72 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64630 | ||
The passages of scripture listed below span the entire period of the writing of the bible, from Moses to John. All of them teach that salvation is for all who want it because God created, creates, and will create ALL mankind, and would rather that NONE would perish. Man's freedom of choice is the only thing between him and his God. Deut 10:17 "For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 2 Chr 19:7 "Now then let the fear of the LORD be upon you; be very careful what you do, for the LORD our God will have no part in unrighteousness or partiality or the taking of a bribe." Job 34:19 Who shows no partiality to princes Nor regards the rich above the poor, For they all are the work of His hands? Prov 18:5 To show partiality to the wicked is not good, Nor to thrust aside the righteous in judgment. Prov 24:23 These also are sayings of the wise. To show partiality in judgment is not good. Prov 28:21 To show partiality is not good, Because for a piece of bread a man will transgress. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God. Gal 2:6 But from those who were of high reputation (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--well, those who were of reputation contributed nothing to me. Eph 6:9 And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him. 1 Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. Amen, Amen, Amen! |
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73 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64626 | ||
What about John's baptism? It was a water baptism unto repentance (Mk 1:4, Lk 3:3, Acts 13:24, Acts 19:4). Jesus's disciples continued to baptize with or without John the baptist (John 4:1,2). Until Christ died, the "ritual of Christian baptism" was of no effect because baptism into Christ is for the remission of sin. Christ died for the sin of man and we could not be baptized for remission of sin until he did die hence a baptism of repentance to "prepare the way" Is 40:3, Mt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4, Jn 1:23). Once Christ died it became necessary for those who had only been baptized for repentance to be baptized again, for the remission of sins (Acts 19:1-7). Those that have never been baptized are baptized into Christ. This passage in Acts also supports the truth that baptism into Christ is necessary, hence Paul "re-baptized", if you will, these disciples he found in Ephesus. With the exception of the example of Cornelius, it is also evidence that the Holy Spirit is not received until after baptism, and then, only when an Apostle would lay hands upon the individual. Since there are no more Apostles, the gifts of the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues, interpreting, miraculous healing, prophesying, etc.) can no longer be passed from one individual (an Apostle) to another. A person receiving a gift from an Apostle did not have the power to transfer gifts, so after the last Apostle died so did the power to transfer gifts. After the last recipient of a gift died, no more gifts. 1 Cor 13:8 But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! The passage from Corinthians clearly shows that the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease. Some say the "that which is perfect" in following verses is on one hand, the 'perfect' written word of God, which would mean gifts have already ceased, while others say that the "that which is perfect" is Jesus at his second coming. The passage from Acts clearly shows that it was necessary for an Apostle to perform the laying on of hands in order administer or transfer gifts to other men. It is also clear that baptism into "the Lord" is a prerequisite. |
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74 | What is the literal Greek translation? | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64615 | ||
Tell me, how is the passage literally translated from the Greek? Peter replied, "Each of you must turn from your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. New Living Translation Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. New American Standard And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. American Standard Version Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. New King James Version Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. King James Version Then Peter said unto them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Third Millenium Bible Peter replied, "Each of you must turn from your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. New Living Translation Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. New Revised Standard Version And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Revised Standard Version Peter said to them, "Each one of you must turn away from your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven; and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit. The Good News Bible in Today's English Version But Peter said to them: Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Douay-Rheims Bible Each of the above translations have baptism before remission of sins. Are you saying that all the Greek/English scholars that translated from the Greek to English got it wrong? |
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75 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64574 | ||
Actually he made the initial accusation and I rebutted with tact, using his own words. An "elder" denotes maturity, responsibility, knowledge, understanding, patience, etc., etc. I did come across defensively but defense is a reaction to offense, if you know what I mean. I am praying and taking two steps back so that I can reassess my purpose. Again thank you for your brotherly kindness! |
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76 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64573 | ||
Point taken. | ||||||
77 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64572 | ||
Thank you for your kind words. I confess that my eagerness to "preach" got the better of me and I have committed to changing my attitude and behavior. Only the power of the word can change mens hearts, if they want to be changed. You said, "I would say if you try to push anyone to believe the Church of Christ, or anyother church for that matter, is the only TRUE church, you will not enjoy the forun and this will waste your time." This is what I don't understand. Only one church is spoke of in the New Testament, that which Christ died for. Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." This passage speaks to the elders of the church at Ephesus and mentions the church of God, but we must realize that it was Christ's blood that purchased the church and that he and God are one. We read of no other church but that one. We have all we need written in the holy book of God. No man's interpretation of scripture will nullify the truth of God's word. John 17:17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth." 1 Cor 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. 1 Cor 4:7 For who regards you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it? Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. What do we have now that we haven't already received from Christ, the Apostles, and the rest of the men inspired by God to record His holy word. In some cases we have "doctrines" that have been added to the word of God, in others we have doctrines that take away from the word of God. In either case, we will receive a just reward. |
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78 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64545 | ||
I have no doctrine to impose. I have tried at all times to support my position with God's word. This is the only doctrine we have. The verses I cited were to support the fact that Jesus is with God. Elijah and Enoch are two individuals who never experienced physical death, but Jesus says in John 3:13, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" so even they are not in heaven, yet. What was your purpose for citing 2 Cor. 5:6-8? |
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79 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64542 | ||
My day is complete! I have actually learned something. The passage in Luke does not indicate it but John 19:32,33 says, "So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. To answer your question, yes the thief died under the new covenant, but was forgiven under the old. I understand where you are coming from. Hebrews 9:11-17 supports this position. "But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. FOR A TESTAMENT IS IN FORCE AFTER MEN ARE DEAD (emphasis mine), since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in paradise while under the old covenant. The thief was in a state of redemption at that point. Jesus died, the new covenant was in effect, the thief died. If the thief was already in a state of redemption was it necessary for him to be redeemed again? |
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80 | FTimA, Why cite English dictionary? | Matt 22:37 | FTimA | 64540 | ||
Thank you Searcher, I already use this. I like it. | ||||||
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