Results 61 - 80 of 109
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Results from: Notes Author: jesusfreak508@aol.com Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58715 | ||
I have been having some great conversation on this with Tim Moran. Don't dismiss the arguments, Steve. It's that smell. Think about your refrigerator. You open the door and you smell something not right. Not pleasant either. You know it's not the refrigerator, but there's that smell every time you open the door. I've said those things because I smell what I smell. I know it's not the Word, but there it is every time I get into 1Cor14 in the Word. All I'm looking for is what's the source of that smell. If you read my posts with Tim, you'll see I've already cleared the air, for me anyway, in 1Tim verses, and I've got a good lead on 1Cor14,too. Melanie |
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62 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58714 | ||
As a woman I came to be comfortable with the term "helper" along time ago. When the only other times I could find that term used in the Bible it was referring to God or the Holy Spirit, I figured Woman was in excellent company! Going to read your other post now. Do you know what a Godsend you are? Melanie |
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63 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58712 | ||
Tim See my other post on this. Thanks so much. Melanie |
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64 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58711 | ||
No, actually, I don't think you sound harsh at all. I too believe action must be taken. I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. And yes, I know that Jesus could be harsh. "oh you hyprocrits" what??? 9 or 10 times in one chapter? And tossing the money changers out. And dead bones was probably a pretty deadly insult, but my relationship with Jesus is personal. I can't step out of the box of unconditional love that He fills me and surrounds me with in my fellowship with Him through the Holy Spirit. Paul, until this morning, was someone I had read about it, but had never communicated with on any personal level, so that would be why I could say he was more harsh. I hated this forum yesterday, but today is another day. I am really loving the places it is leading me and the way it is driving me to clarify in my own mind so many things. God bless you, and thank you for caring Melanie |
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65 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58710 | ||
If you will read my posts to Tim Moran that I wrote this morning you will find out that I am not "accusing" Paul of being discriminatory against women. I am questioning the smell of discrimination that these few verses put in my nostrils. | ||||||
66 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58709 | ||
Absolutely not. I put it right in there with every word written in the whole Bible. Old Testament and New Testament. | ||||||
67 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58708 | ||
Yes. I agree totally. And I have felt inadequate responding to this not knowing all the circumstances. But you are the first person who has had a criteria of any sort that would lead to implementing the Timothy/Titus rules. Would scandal also be determined by the "crime"? Such as a child molester--- you're forgiven by you must not be allowed into any position around children or as a leader because of the very nature of your offense and the ever present danger of backsliding? and Adultery/Fornication-- 1st time and repeat offenders, with also I would think the additional determining factor of the damage it did to the church body by the determination of how many people actually knew and would/could be harmed by it? I guess what I am saying here is that it should be determined on a case by case issue, with mercy being as important as punishment God bless, Melanie |
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68 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58705 | ||
See how the Spirit works? I just finished the two long posts to you, coming to virtually the same conclusions, and now I read this one! Praise the Lord! And God bless you. Melanie Cosentino |
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69 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58704 | ||
Hello again Tim. Hopefully this will be a short post. But I leave that to the Spirit. What I did not know yesterday when I was being attacked as an "apostle basher" was some interesting bits of church history. In 352AD at the Council of Laodicea, the "new" church, (Catholic), it was decided that "One ought not to establish in the church the women called overseers." Hmmm, right? Who were "the women called overseers" if we accept the modern translating of these troubling verses of Paul? There wouldn't have been any such thing. Yet there obviously was. In 398 AD, the 4th Snod of Carthage said, "A woman, however learned and holy, may not presume to teach men in an assembly". Again, hmmmm. The way these things work, issues are brought up, debated and decisions reached are in the findings. If Paul in the earliest churches had determined that there would no such thing, why was it going on for the Catholic church to determine to stop it? 441AD, they also decided to "Let no one proceed to the ordination of deaconessess anymore". Anymore? Then in 517AD, they proclaim, "We abrogate completely..." then include "...the consecration of widows who are named deaconesses." following in 533AD with "No longer shall the blessing of deaconess be given, because of the weakness of the sex." No wonder they didn't want the Bible translated into common languages! Then you wait a few hundred years until the context and usage of the language itself has changed (i.e. Head being no longer used to imply "source" and now viewed as "authority"), and when finally Bibles are allowed to be circulated amongst more than the priesthood, that Greek has been transformed, and translated into Latin...... And don't anyone bothering to post to tell me it couldn't have happened. I live in a Christian country that was established by Christians, consecrated to the Redeemer by Christians, and even had a government CREATED by these Christians in such a way that no Christian sect could ever have authority over the others (our founders were persecuted Christians coming here to escape the persecution of OTHER Christians); yet here we are a few hundred years later and it's all been perverted into 'all religions are equal and protected from Christianity'! The Deceiver is clever and cunning, and truly totally depraved, and a few hundred years of step by step progress to an error that makes women feel unwelcome or inferior in Christ would be just his style. So there's the "source" of the error. I call him the Deceiver, and right here on the airways where he is said to have authority, I declare I am going to keep after this under the guidance of the Spirit until I have his smarmy head under my heel! I hope he already feels the headache from the crushing I pray to give him! The Word is infallible, but my spirit tells me that there is an error. I accept it could be mine and that it means just what it says in plain English, but I don't think so and now I feel like a hound on the scent of it. God is good! I do so love this stuff. So now I am off to the original Greek, to the times of Corinth and Ephesus. "Praying in the spirit, and in the mind. Singing in the spirit, and in the mind." Wish me bon voyage, dear Tim, and pray for me. I can think of one or two in this forum who hope my ship sinks! |
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70 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58699 | ||
I believe that Scripture is the inspired, infalliable, inerrant Word of God. No ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions. I love Paul, and it has been a journey getting there. These very few Scriptures were so hurtful to me that I would cry and wonder why God did not love Woman. But my spirit would not accept that God did not love woman, so I kept at it. Unceasingly. I accept that the Word as it was given from Paul is infalliable, so then the error was either in me, my reading of it, or in the translation of it because I know God not only loves woman, but deeper, He cherishes and delights in them. Can you imagine my comfort when the Spirit brought me to Proverbs 8, where the Word says Wisdom is a woman? and in verse 30 I read, "Then I was beside Him as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always." (Amplified) Once I worked through my sorrow and pain, rejecting it, accepting on Faith that God loved and cherished and delighted in the female aspect of "...His image and likeness", then He takes me straight to a Scripture that even uses the word 'delight'! Praise the Lord and His Mighty Name! That was some weeks ago, and I don't believe it coincidence that almost the very first thing I get into on this forum is this very Paul whom I so recently come to love in all his writings, even those I do not understand. Yesterday I left this forum and even felt like Paul. After he had been stoned and left for dead. I awoke this morning and rose from my prayer like Paul determined that even after being stoned I would continue. God loves me, and so does Paul. On Faith I returned to my studies knowing that as long as I don't give up the quest for Truth, I will find the treasure of it. In Faith, I went to my Bible content that the Word itself would reveal the way I was to go. So where did it take me? Back to 1 Corinthians 14. The source of all this controversy and angst. Except this time, do you know what verses drew me? Verse 11, "If I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me." Then verse 19, "But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." And finally, back up to Verse 15, "So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind." It was like Paul himself was speaking through to time straight to me. I love it when the Word does that! Sorry.... I had to pause for a minute and just praise God!!! Now I have come to my computer and checked my email and come here to this forum. Again. Back into the lions den. Except now I have some interesting information delivered to me over these lines of bits and data. Something I had not considered, and somethings I had not known. And a very nice post from a very nice Christian man, also "coincidentally' named Timothy. I had not considered that Timothy was not a letter of instruction to the church, but a letter counseling Timothy on how to organize the church. And it had just skipped over my mind that the church in question was Ephesus. Ephesus, where the women were not traditionally educated. So now I look at 1Timothy 2:11 and 12, and see that Paul is saying these women should learn. "...in quietness and full submission." Well of course. That is the proper attitude for any student with her teacher. And of course, these women should not be teaching their husbands! Talk about a blind guide! I even understand the Adam and Eve reference. I've always thought God punished Man because he listened to Woman, when it was supposed to be Woman who listened to Man. He was the one God gave the knowledge to...Hah! I just thought of something. I just answered a post last night on the Adam and Eve thing under the Christ's Elect thread, clarifying my thoughts on that (and called a feminist and dismissed by the man this morning! LOL!) My goodness, the Spirit has been busy with me. In any event, I view the Greek definition of "Head" as the source. Which in the original early Greek was used about 97 percent of the time, and rarely defined as "authority", not even in all of the 3 percent not defined as "source". What a terrible source these Ephesian women would have been for teaching men when they were not only new to the Faith but also knew to learning itself. It would have no doubt have had the same results of Woman leading Man in the Garden. I never back these things up, yet just a moment ago I copied this to notepad, and no sooner had I done it then my connection was lost. I would have lost all of this if I'd not been able to paste it back on. Praise the Lord! So now I'm going to end this post having told you 'what I had not considered' then if you don't mind I'll tell you the rest of this in what "I didn't know" until this morning in a second post. |
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71 | 508, Are you a DQed overseer? | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58684 | ||
That is exactly where I am. And when I don't know, or I'm not sure, I always choose to err on the side of the Lamb. Trusting that God has a plan and that He is going to have His Will and His Way. I am praying earnestly for mercy for this man though. However it works out, I trust in my Savior. God bless Melanie |
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72 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58683 | ||
Actually you bring me more of a mind to Titus 1:15,16 I am thinking in the early Church, you would have been in the group howling that Paul/Saul should not be allowed to be an apostle because of his earlier, Christ forgiven sins. Jesus had to knock Paul down and blind him for 3 days to get it into his head that his treasured rules were meaningless to the Lord. How wonderful to know that if Jesus still has a use for this poor fallen man in ministry the rule-bound Pharisees will be powerless to stop it. So this debate really is pointless. Continuing in prayer for our fallen brother, and you. Melanie |
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73 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58680 | ||
lol I'm a stay at home mom with 5 children, 2 who are grown and have 2 grandchildren. We are active in our tiny little church and live on a horse farm. Our joy is in the Lord and He never disappoints. We are strong in Him and the power of His might even through our trials. My husband, kids, and church family are going to be as amused as I am to learn that anyone considers me a feminist! Especially as in my women's Sunday School class and the youth groups where I counsel submission to the Lord and women to their husbands and fathers and it always brings on lovely lively debates and discussions. But if you aren't up to the debate I perfectly understand. Ah well. I was actually hopeful for a time of having a lively learning debate here on this forum. Why is it that so many here only see this forum as a venue insult or condemn or just have their view points reaffirmed? Ah well. God bless. |
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74 | Christ dying only for elect? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58642 | ||
This forum feels like a church where I can't feel the presence of Jesus. Thankfully there are a few who just shine with Him and make it bearable. I have tried to leave it, but the Spirit keeps making me come back. Just like a church I can't leave because God doesn't give me the authority to judge my church. So I give up. Tell me what a Calvinist thinks God sees when He looks at you? Teach me to understand. I believe I am covered by the Blood. I think when God looks at me, He sees someone who has been cleansed in the Blood of the Lamb. I think I shine. I have been washed white as snow. I wear the righteousness of my risen Savior. How can I accept that He has done all this for me, then say I am totally depraved? I died in Christ! If I have given myself to Him as His servant, His slave, His child, His bride, and I say I am not changed and transformed by it, if I insist I am not a new creature altogether by it---is that not spiritual adultery? I keep praying and reading my Bible and the Spirit keeps bringing me to Scriptures testifying to the authority and love and forgiveness and compassion and justice and mercy of God, then I come back to the forum and get slammed by people who want me to grant Paul's words the same authority of Jesus's words, who want me to acclaim that I am filth, that God limits Himself, that evil is stronger than Him, and who want to convince me that the source of all my joy is actually a God who's walking around with a baseball bat just waiting for the opportunity to bash me or any of His other followers! That's Allah, not God! I'm so sorry. You didn't even do most of this yet I vent all over you. I really meant it, teach me, Calvinist. There is obviously something here God wants me to learn and it looks like you are elected. Oh thank goodness! I haven't lost my sense of humor. Elected; get it? God bless and I look forward to hearing from you. |
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75 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58641 | ||
That's exactly the prayer I do use. And it works because as I said, I used to care nothing for Paul and now it's just these few passages that stick in my craw. I am sure it is something within me, probably the woman, but little by little, the Spirit is working it out in me. Thank you for caring. You are like a bright star in what for me has so far has been a mostly dark and condemning forum. |
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76 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58640 | ||
Oh Thank you! You are an answer to a prayer! I was just this moment answering another person who was alluding to me as a "you people" who doesn't follow the Scripture because I believe compassion and mercy and forgiveness should be the way this situation is handled. I have been truly HAMMERED today. And with authority of such terms as "disqualified overseers" which I've never even seen in the Scriptures. I was trying to think of a Scripture that restores good cheer because my spirit was truly sad, now here you are! God bless you. | ||||||
77 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58637 | ||
Where does it say if you are disqualified while an overseer, you may no longer be an overseer? | ||||||
78 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58634 | ||
We were created to rule the earth and everything in/on it. How do you rule without free will? God said it. You rule it, you name it. My Bible tells me Woman wasn't created when God gave the instructions about the fruit. So who changed God's Word and set her up to be successfully tricked into the sin of EATING it by telling her she was forbidden to eat it or touch it? Who named Woman and was the Head in their pairing? And as such stood as her spiritual leader, authority and protector? And where was he when the devil was leading her down the garden path? Genesis 3:6 says he was with her, so why didn't he open his mouth? Why is he just sitting there letting this snake get away with this? He had an obligation and responsibility to her that came with being the one to name her as well as the fact that she was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. Sounds to me like somebody used somebody as a poison-taster. When asked what she had done, Woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." I did it, but I was tricked. We'll just skip the fact that her Man stood right there and watched the whole thing, and I'll ask instead, what would have happened if Man had grabbed her arm and drug her butt off to God and said, "He tricked her! She had bad information and that snake tricked her! Once she touched it and nothing happened she figured the whole thing was bogus and she ate it! Yes, she thought she was being disobedient when she touched it, but she doesn't have the authority to make those kinds of decisions anyway. You gave that to me! I rule here!" But we'll never know. He didn't do that, did he? He ate the fruit. Nobody twisted his arm. Nobody talked him into it. Nobody told him to do it. She gave it to him and he ate it. When God confronted him, he said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the the tree, and I ate it." I did it, but she gave it to me, and you gave her to me. So he wasn't just blaming Woman, he was blaming God too. It wasn't his fault. He was arguing he didn't have any responsibility or free will either. Somethings never change. And you argue that poor old helpless mindless no-will of his own Man was punished by God because he listened to Woman instead of God. Somethings really never do change. There you go adding stuff to the Word of God, too. My Bible says that he was punished because he listened to Woman. Period. He's the head remember? She's supposed to listen to him, not vice versa. I could be wrong there, but it makes more sense when you consider her punishment. She's going to give him babies and its going to hurt worse than anything she could ever imagine, so bad in fact that we don't really remember how bad it was until we start having the next one and so bad that it hurts the Man just watching it, yet her desire for him is going to keep her coming back for it again and again. Says pretty much without any doubt, 'Now are we clear who is RULER in this little pas de deux?' I've always thought someone who is deceived or tricked is by definition a dupe. Not too bright. But you think poor old mindless no will Man was doing just fine until the big bad too smart and strong for him Woman caused his wheels to start falling off. But God didn't say that either, did he? He said, "Cursed is the ground because of you." But that's just how a woman reads those verses. |
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79 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58633 | ||
We were created to rule the earth and everything in/on it. How do you rule without free will? God said it. You rule it, you name it. My Bible tells me Woman wasn't created when God gave the instructions about the fruit. So who changed God's Word and set her up to be successfully tricked into the sin of EATING it by telling her she was forbidden to eat it or touch it? Who named Woman and was the Head in their pairing? And as such stood as her spiritual leader, authority and protector? And where was he when the devil was leading her down the garden path? Genesis 3:6 says he was with her, so why didn't he open his mouth? Why is he just sitting there letting this snake get away with this? He had an obligation and responsibility to her that came with being the one to name her as well as the fact that she was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. Sounds to me like somebody used somebody as a poison-taster. When asked what she had done, Woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." I did it, but I was tricked. We'll just skip the fact that her Man stood right there and watched the whole thing, and I'll ask instead, what would have happened if Man had grabbed her arm and drug her butt off to God and said, "He tricked her! She had bad information and that snake tricked her! Once she touched it and nothing happened she figured the whole thing was bogus and she ate it! Yes, she thought she was being disobedient when she touched it, but she doesn't have the authority to make those kinds of decisions anyway. You gave that to me! I rule here!" But we'll never know. He didn't do that, did he? He ate the fruit. Nobody twisted his arm. Nobody talked him into it. Nobody told him to do it. She gave it to him and he ate it. When God confronted him, he said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the the tree, and I ate it." I did it, but she gave it to me, and you gave her to me. So he wasn't just blaming Woman, he was blaming God too. It wasn't his fault. He was arguing he didn't have any responsibility or free will either. Somethings never change. And you argue that poor old helpless mindless no-will of his own Man was punished by God because he listened to Woman instead of God. Somethings really never do change. There you go adding stuff to the Word of God, too. My Bible says that he was punished because he listened to Woman. Period. He's the head remember? She's supposed to listen to him, not vice versa. I could be wrong there, but it makes more sense when you consider her punishment. She's going to give him babies and its going to hurt worse than anything she could ever imagine, so bad in fact that we don't really remember how bad it was until we start having the next one and so bad that it hurts the Man just watching it, yet her desire for him is going to keep her coming back for it again and again. Says pretty much without any doubt, 'Now are we clear who is RULER in this little pas de deux?' I've always thought someone who is deceived or tricked is by definition a dupe. Not too bright. But you think poor old mindless no will Man was doing just fine until the big bad too smart and strong for him Woman caused his wheels to start falling off. But God didn't say that either, did he? He said, "Cursed is the ground because of you." But that's just how a woman reads those verses. |
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80 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58628 | ||
Alright. I can go with you there. Just tossing him to the wolves is what was upsetting me. Melanie |
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