Results 41 - 60 of 109
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Results from: Notes Author: jesusfreak508@aol.com Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58848 | ||
Oh. For a minute there I thought I hit rewind, but I get it now. We're exchanging non-Biblical quotes. Sorry. That last Biblical quote of mine was out of order then. Okay. Here's one for you. "Meaning must be determined in terms of use and convention along with also some definite ontological tie to the world. Without the combination, utterances could not be accurately defined between what is a reflection of what is going on in the world and what is a reflection of what is going on in the mind.... ....When God spoke through the human author He intended that the words used in the Biblical text were meant to communicate something about the entire reality which surrounds us. When approaching the Bible, a reader must comprehend the extra-linguistic referents so he can be reasonably certain that his understanding of God's message is correct." I'm not reasonably certain that either of us have the message correct, but I am reasonably certain you don't use this method. Still want to play? Melanie |
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42 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58837 | ||
Oh excellent! I hadn't even thought about that. I even do that in my business training horses. My client/student can tell me all about the greatest method they have read in some book, and I will discuss it, but if I disagree and I can't convince them, I will just pull out the 'okay, now we have decide who's training this horse' closing argument. Thank you so much! I hope this day the Lord has made finds you well, Melanie |
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43 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58836 | ||
The Lord said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" Exodus 4:11 So I'm not going to worry about just not hearing you. |
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44 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58834 | ||
No. Well maybe. I agree with you. I was just looking for someone in agreement with me for prayer and I wanted some more supporting Scriptures. Thank you! | ||||||
45 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58810 | ||
Paul was writing to Timothy about a church he himself had established and apparently he was writing this letter nearer to the end of his life. If that was how he intended those words, why didn't he make that policy when he established that church? Why instead did he make that policy when there were problems in the local society, and inside the church body with gnosticism, where these solutions would serve? As for creation, that is a reference to what happens when the teacher is lead by the student. One, Woman shouldn't have been the one leading the debate with the devil. Man was "formed" first, meaning not just created, but also the one to whom God gave the instructions, the teachings. Woman was his pupil, yet he was there with her, and he heard her replies of incomplete knowledge of the Word and he did not step in. Not to correct her, not to chase off the devil. He let her incomplete knowledge of the Word deceive her, then he the teacher, just went along with the student. She got herself killed with incomplete knowledge of the Word. While her teacher "was there with her". As for Catholic practices--- so far all my research indicates that it was they who shut the door to women in ministry and teaching positions. Beginning with the Council of Laodicea in 352 AD they began a systematic ceasing of such practices by forbidding existing women roles one by one. Beginning in 352 AD where they wrote, "One ought not to establish in the church the women called overseers." If I follow your logic, they weren't overriding the Bible, they would have been restoring it to what the Apostles intended. I'm afraid you have offered me nothing convincing or convicting. I will have to continue to pray about and research this. As Paul advises in 1Cor14, praying in the spirit and praying in the mind. I am sure you are sincere in your convictions, and I respect your opinion, but I think your logic and your arguments are flawed. I would appreciate your opinion on 1Jer 31:33,34 though. Do you feel this prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus? And how would it work into the doctrine of 'the elect'. I have been reading about that here on this forum and I'm very confused. Thank you Melanie |
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46 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58793 | ||
I don't think I know enough yet to have developed any dogma. I hope I never do if it robs you of the pure joy of being in Christ and the joy of studying His Word. I am trying to learn the dogma and doctrines and tenets of the various peoples of Faith, but they seem to place so many restrictions and conditions and they don't like questions. It will be hard. But I'll just have to be persistant. Brother Tim here on the Forum is a wonderful correspondant and seems very well versed in studying the Word. Ah well, I go where the Spirit guides me and just enjoy the journey. Even when it hurts. God bless, Melanie |
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47 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58787 | ||
They can be vicious in here. Could it be 1Cor14:34 put into action right here before our eyes? Just kidding. Sort of. But that is why the verse is so unsettling to me if we just accept this modern translation of it. It runs women away from the church and I can't think that Jesus wants that. I'm glad to see you are always here. So what did you think of the post? Melanie |
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48 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58779 | ||
Tim Moran Could you please read posts #58776 and #58348. I would really like your thoughts. Especially on the research I'm trying to do for my Sunday School class. Thanks, Melanie |
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49 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58776 | ||
You guys are so hard! (I'm saying that with a grin on my face as someone who has already been through the fire of the men in this forum once and has lived to tell the tale.) I agree with everything you said to her, but a little gentleness here. I hope she's at least still reading the posts. Here's a thought too on this verse. I am starting with v11. This is an established but loosely organized church. He's writing to Timothy about what he needs to consider there as the church's head and in view of what's going on. Women were not even allowed to be educated as the norm. So they are fairly new to Faith and new to being educated at all. Paul is saying that they should learn. They should do it in quietness and full submissiveness. Which is the proper attitude for any student. Alot of arguing and debating is not a right learning attitude for the one doing it and it is disruptive to the learning environment for all the other students. I see v12 as Paul telling Timothy, 'This is what I would do. Do not allow these women to be the source of their husband's teaching. In fact, don't even let them talk.' In light of the fact of what is going on in the city, who can blame him for advising Timothy to this course. These are ignorant women, just beginning to be educated. Just learning how to "think" if you will. They are also going through a spiritual awakening. The Bible teaches us that this is a point where there is great danger. (Refer to Matthew and parable of the sower and the seeds). And with gnosticism's ugly head slithering around the danger would be imminent. Also I would refer to Joshua and Jericho. I heard a great teaching on this where the basic premise was that they would have talked themselves right out of their miracle if they had been allowed to talk. 'This is stupid. This is never going to work. Why are we doing this?' With their tongues, as James warns us, they would have sliced and diced their own faith and belief in God's Word. So Joshua (from God) just told them to march around the city and not say a word or even make a sound. God intended those walls to come down and since Faith is how He works His miracles, He wasn't going to let those unruly tongues He's given us disrupt His plans, so He just invoked parental authority and said, Shut up. No back talk. Just be quiet and do what you're told. I think in v12 Paul is telling Timothy to do this same thing with these women. Just shut up. Just listen. Just learn. You can ask your questions (probably) but don't you dare presume to speak to tell. Writing a letter was a timely and expensive process. Somethings had to be just left as said, assuming your reader would understand. And Paul could do that with Timothy, his own disciple. So he takes him to Adam and Eve. Whether this is an answer to the nasty bit of gnosticism going around or something to give the men when their wives chew their heads off about the new 'no talking' rule, I don't know, but it would work for either so maybe it served for both. Rather like, 'yes--the flesh was our downfall, but (v15); and also 'this is why it is proper that your wives be quiet'. 'Adam was formed first'. Pretty basic so what does it mean? It means Man was taught first. Timothy wouldn't need to be told that. Man was given/versed in the knowledge first. He got it straight from God, whereas woman got it from him ('then Eve' in the verse). And Adam was not deceived. He just straight up disobeied. (That's my own little insert.--Back to Paul) It was woman who became a sinner through deception. Now, we like Timothy, know the rest of the story. Enough said.--If you're working with quill, ink and parchment. If Woman had had complete knowledge before she started talking with the snake, he couldn't have deceived her. (Isn't that why we're told to study the Word?) She could have thrown the Word back in his face, driving him off. These women aren't equipped to do that any better than Woman was in the garden. Man was the proper one to have been engaged in that debate with the snake. That's why I think God said, 'the ground is cursed because of you'. Not because he listened to woman instead of God, but just as the Word says, because he listened to woman. Period. The student is leading the teacher, and as a result they both died. Man put or let Woman get out in front and let her do the talking without the benefit of complete knowledge, and she got herself killed. That's the story, and Paul is Timothy's teacher. He wouldn't have had to go into all that. So he didn't. v15But she will be saved. The story has a happy ending, Paul seems to be reminding his disciple not to forget to reclarify that. Through childbirth. Which is the Good News, which their church is all about '--as long as they continue......'(meant for men and women with the afterthought being Paul's not mine). So there it is. What do you think? And be nice. |
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50 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58769 | ||
Okay. Politely, where do you get that this was church policy? Jews of that time didn't even segregate the women from worship as they do now. Rules were that Pharisees were forbidden in most cases to talk to women, but I've never found anywhere that says the women couldn't talk. I'm not being rude here. I am truly studying this and I genuinely want to know where you are getting the information that says this was a matter of church conduct so that I can study it. Thanks in advance, Melanie |
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51 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58761 | ||
Thank you. | ||||||
52 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58759 | ||
Ok. Let me get this straight. I don't have free will, because as long as I make no choices then I stand where God put me. Making a choice means I'm standing with the Devil, and which point that's free will but not? So, question 1: How did I get in right standing with God in the first place? As a Christian, I believe I heard about Jesus, and accepted Him, received Him--- I'm really struggling here not to use the word chose since you're telling me I didn't have a choice, Do you get why this is confusing to me? And I apologize too. I wasn't angry or anything when I wrote the former post, and I truly believe/meant everything I said/explained as how I see/read the Scriptures (this is a new habit for me. I feel like I've been amplified!---but I do want to be clear and not waste alot of time arguing about specific words/meanings as long as I'm getting my point across)to continue my apology--but I did write it with rather a snippy attitude. Pretty much the way/manner I used explaining my take on Gen3 when my 22 year old son had a go trying with me some of the chauvanism play he uses with his girlfriends. It wasn't meant to be ugly, but it was sardonic; genuinely held but delivered more sarcastically than it should have been. You weren't imagining it. I'm still hoping to have free will cleared up a bit. I'm thinking we're arguing semantics here, but that could be useful, too. Melanie |
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53 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58755 | ||
Thank you. THIS is the kind of instruction I am hungering for from this forum. God bless. |
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54 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58739 | ||
Allegorical. And you are saying that when believers sin, they've already used their get-out-of-jail-free card so now they're just out of luck. I don't believe in luck and I don't think God parcels out His blessings or His forgiveness. So I'll ask you the same thing the disciples asked Jesus. How many times do you forgive your brother? In Christ, Melanie Oh, and I apologize for the other post. I meant everything I said, but my heart wasn't right. I was responding with the right words but the wrong temper. |
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55 | Christ dying only for elect? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58738 | ||
Where does He say some can't get it? Genuine query. Don't bite my head off. Melanie |
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56 | Christ dying only for elect? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58737 | ||
What Adam lost in his body is what Christ restored in His body. Adam was instructed. He chose not to believe God; not to believe those instuctions. He had that choice and he made it. We have been instructed. We each can choose not to believe, not to believe those instructions. That's our choice and we make it. The prophecy of Jer31:33-34 is what I believe was restored to our heart's by Jesus and it say "all" will get it. Paul says as all were brought to death through/by Adam, all are restored by Jesus. I believe it was that awareness of God that was restored. Adam had it, we didn't until Jesus. Now we do. Now we are like Adam. We have the choice. Adam was ignorant for he had no knowledge of death, but I'd have to argue his innocence. The Bible says Woman was deceived into sin, but Adam was with her so he was hearing the same arguments the devil was giving her. I'd say he lost his innocence when he listened to that snake and took the fruit from his woman. The decision was made to do it before he ever reached out his hand to take it. If you lust in your heart you are guilty of adultery, so why would that premise not be true here? You are saying Adam didn't know it was wrong. Or that he didn't know wrong, disobedience, was evil? He knew he wasn't supposed to eat that fruit and he did it. I'd just as soon not get into any more debates where the response is basically 'you stupid unbeliever, you're going to burn, you have no right, yada yada yada' so if you can't instruct gently, please don't respond. Trust in the Spirit that I'll get to Truth as long as I seek it deligently with prayer, and pray for me, but don't write! However, if you have a gentle spirit and a genuine desire to instruct me, I look forward to hearing from you. In Christ, Melanie |
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57 | Christ dying only for elect? | Rom 5:6 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58730 | ||
Well, I was washed in the Blood which makes me alive and cleansed. And if I seek God, persistently, I will be restored. I did, do everyday of my life, and even every hour of every day on many, many days, so I think I shine with my Savior's righteousness when God looks at me. One or the other of you are arguing that God is the one who planted the persistence in me and that its preordained that I would awaken to that one day/ somehow, causing me to seek. So basically we're talking here a 'which comes first, the chicken or the egg' argument and I don't know how we'd ever know who was right or wrong on that issue until our Lord comes back to claim His own. I do wonder how you work in the parable of the sower and the seeds in Matthew though. That was a legitimate inquiry by the way. I am considering this. And I also wonder how those on the side of only some being amongst the elect deal with Jeremiah 31:33-34 I also don't get how you think I am defending preconceived ideas since I only just came to the conclusion it was pretty awful with the post you read. In Christ, Melanie |
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58 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58728 | ||
My point and I agree. But I wonder how you can use in your arguement the differing social methods and practices of locality,language, custom, tradition, language context, etc., in translating Scripture when it is instructions to men, then insist that these same be dismissed when viewing Scriptures instructing women. And actually I was serious, too. How do you kiss? The European cheek and cheek? The hoi-poloi buzz the air by the cheek? I've always wondered. |
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59 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58720 | ||
I wasn't so cheerful yesterday. I blasted Kalos. Well, it was a blast for me anyway. I just love God and I want to share it with everyone. When people try to hoard it to themselves or seem to be putting conditions on it, declaring God has put these conditions on it--not them, oh no, never them!, that's one of the few things that can still get me really mad. (And me a redhead who used to have the temper stereotyped to redheads!) I suppose I should post and apologize to Kalos. But I'm not going to. If God wants me to, He can make me. I know He will if that's what He wants. There are some on this forum that would use that statement to reinforce their 'no free will' arguments, but I don't buy that either. I just figure He is rather like my young children. When they want me to do something, they just don't stop bothering me about it until my "no" turns into an "I don't know", then into a "maybe", and finally an "okay, fine!" That's the way He works on me anyway. I figure He's just teaching me the way I should work with Him. Persistently. And if anyone wants to hammer me on that one I will direct you to the OT, Abraham pleading for Sodom and Gommorah, and to keep things equal, also to the NT, where the woman is haranging Jesus about saving her daughter from demons. He even calls her a dog and she just keeps at Him. Persistance. God wants it from us. Hmm. Wonder how I got to that from Paul. Thanks for your kind post. God Bless, Melanie |
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60 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58716 | ||
So how do the men in your church greet each other with the holy kiss? As Paul and Peter both say you should do each time you meet? I've always been curious about that. Now I've found a church that sticks so strigently to the Word in their practices, I can finally get the answer. So how do you give a holy kiss? And is it every time you meet? Or just every time you come to church? |
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